Tell me about air cooled VW bugs

[scottmandue]

Wife absolutely loves these old cars, I do too but a little concerned about safety in a crash.

Setting the safety issue aside the positive is they are super easy to and inexpensive work on and generally fun to drive and be seen in.

I have been poking around Samba to get some ideas, we don't need or want a "show quality car" just basic fun/hobby car to run for groceries, cruise the beach, etc.

I am OK with a few upgrades like disk breaks and maybe having a lowered ride hight to make it handle a little better.

I see some have a narrowed front end, what is that all about?

For better gas mileage I would actually prefer the 1300cc but most seem to have the 1600cc, not a big deal.

Looking at a pre 1970, seems like a decent little runner can be had for around $5K

Any tips on what to look for and/or avoid?

Thanks in advance!

[BRPORSCHE]

She will die.

[GH85Carrera]

My 1st car was a 1960 Bug. They are neat old cars for car geeks. My brother still drives his 1954 Bug that he has had for 30 years. It is his daily driver. His wife hates it with a passion.

They suck major big time as a daily driver in 2012. If she wants one as a weekend toy that is different.

[Joe Bob]

66 is the 1300, the 67 is the 1500 and 12 volt, 68 four lug, 71 1600 dual port.

I've had a few benders back in the day, I lived. Had every model there was. My 63 and my 60Ghia were the funnest.

[Burnin' oil]

Bugs are great for bopping around. Just keep an eye out for rust, particularly in the floor pans, bottom of the doors and heater channels.

Disc brakes are cheap and easy to install.

[scottmandue]

NOT a DD... I have the luxurious Hyundai Elantra for that...

I got T-boned in my brothers 58 VW at low speed by an American land yacht and the door folded like tin foil... my friend lost his leg crashing his VW bus... so I am painfully aware of their lack of crash worthiness.

Wife also loves the 1960's Mustang's... waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of our budget.

What about the lowered ride height? I have seen it done well, and see it done very poorly (and no we don't want a low rider, just drop the CG a little for a better ride).

[rcooled]

I've had many old Bugs & Karmann Ghias over the years...great little cars. Virtually all the old 1300cc motors have now been re-built as 1600s. You can expect around 24-26mpg from a well-running 1600cc motor. As said before, probably not the best choice for hiway driving these days but Bugs are great for running around town...and you can fix most anything right in your driveway with a small handful of tools and some common sense.
Rust is the most difficult thing to repair, so hold out for the most rust-free example you can find. The pan (especially under the battery) is a major tinworm magnet, as are the door bottoms and rocker panels behind the running boards.
Stay away from anything with a narrowed front axle beam. This is done to narrow the front track in order to fit wider tires and is commonly found on cars that are, or once were, "slammed". A narrowed beam will seriously degrade the ride quality (shorter torsion bars=stiff ride) and is usually done by someone who values the look over anything else...not always a good thing. I lowered the front of my current Karmann Ghia 1" with an adjustable (not narrowed) axle beam and tweaked the rear torsion bars for a nice stance with no effect on ride quality. Lowering is OK...just don't go overboard with it.
The cars from the early '50s thru '67 have the classic look, while the later cars have more features are generally more comfortable to drive. From '67 on they all have 12V electrics but a lot of the earlier cars have been upgraded from their original 6V systems. 12V = better lights & easier starting, along with the ability to easily add a decent radio/CD player.
Good luck with your search. Be patient...there are a lot of good examples out there. You can PM me with any questions if you'd like.

[Zeke]

I've owned a dozen or so. However, it sounds like the advice already here about covers it. I don't think they are death traps crash-wise, but they don't have any modern safety features, not even a collapsible steering column. But they fold up like a Porsche absorbing a lot of energy. Good 3 point belts will help a lot.

The reviews have never seemed to be all that great, but would she consider on of the new beetles? I think a lot of the spirit is there. If they were rear engined, I don't see how you could say they weren't a better car overall. The collector factor notwithstanding.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by BRPORSCHE

She will die.

Are you serious? As I said I am extremely concerned about the safety aspect.

Originally Posted by rcooled

and you can fix most anything right in your driveway with a small handful of tools and some common sense.

However this is what attracts me to to old bug, I remember working on my brothers, we could do just about anything with a four way screwdriver and a channel lock. I also remember my brother jamming a wood block under the engine, undoing a few bolts, we reached in grabbed the intake manifold and yanked the engine out.

Originally Posted by Zeke

The reviews have never seemed to be all that great, but would she consider one of the new beetles? I think a lot of the spirit is there. If they were rear engined, I don't see how you could say they weren't a better car overall. The collector factor notwithstanding.

Fortunately she does like the new beetle, and because of the safety factor that is probably the way we will end up going, very good condition 90's bugs can be had at a reasonable price... but I don't see me working on it like a classic old beetle.

[ODDJOB UNO]

about to undertake a 74 kermit the frog green autmatic ghia resto. should be interesting. vehicle ran(i drove it) and its been parked for around 3 years with some stabil in it.

when wifey 1st got it we dumped some bilsteins/brakes/etc into it. only damage was passenger door was replaced. other than that fairly rust free. typical sun rotted interior.


should be fun. and the automatic is a gas to drive. 1st gear up to 51MPH then SHIFT into 2nd.

1600 motor in it.

[BRPORSCHE]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Are you serious? As I said I am extremely concerned about the safety aspect.
.

I was messing with ya man. Everyone always says they are death traps, but as long as she drives carefully and it's not a DD I say go for it. I would love to drive one with a 4cam!

[scottmandue]

Yeah... only downside to the "new beetle" is they cost about twice as much... and I don't know how DIY friendly they are.

When she sees a new beetle she is all "oh that is so cute, wish I could have one someday."

When she sees a classic bug she gets all giggly, bounces up and down squealing "Look at that! Look at that!"

You get the idea.

Silly idea... how difficult would it be to downsize to 1300cc?

[R K T]

I've had three bugs....all '67s, which I think was the best year they made!
I've got an itch to do a VolksRod just for fun. Something like this......

[Evans, Marv]

I had busses, campers, and bugs many, many years ago. I survived, but probably only because I never got into an accident. I don't remember everything I used to know, but I had a '65 that was my all time favorite for driving back & forth to work, to the store, post office, etc. Bought it for $700, had it painted, complete new interior, Michelins & nice chrome wheels, also a 1776 engine. It had a sun roof which I'd crank open whenever possible and could floor it at 70 mph and still get good acceleration from the 1776 if I needed it. I never really did more than try that a couple of times to see what it would do. Otherwise I just drove it normally. I loved that car, it was mine, fixed up the way I wanted it & it was beautiful. I guess those are some of the reasons it got stolen.

[nostatic]

I had a '67 and a '63. '67 was the best year imho - first year of 12V and pre-ugly bumpers. Mine had the 1500 swapped for a 1600. I love those cars and have thought about getting one just for grins. Hard to find a clean one though. Too many of them have been turned into "California Specials" with the chopped suspension.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by rcooled

I've had many old Bugs & Karmann Ghias over the years...great little cars. Virtually all the old 1300cc motors have now been re-built as 1600s. You can expect around 24-26mpg from a well-running 1600cc motor. As said before, probably not the best choice for hiway driving these days but Bugs are great for running around town...and you can fix most anything right in your driveway with a small handful of tools and some common sense.
Rust is the most difficult thing to repair, so hold out for the most rust-free example you can find. The pan (especially under the battery) is a major tinworm magnet, as are the door bottoms and rocker panels behind the running boards.
Stay away from anything with a narrowed front axle beam. This is done to narrow the front track in order to fit wider tires and is commonly found on cars that are, or once were, "slammed". A narrowed beam will seriously degrade the ride quality (shorter torsion bars=stiff ride) and is usually done by someone who values the look over anything else...not always a good thing. I lowered the front of my current Karmann Ghia 1" with an adjustable (not narrowed) axle beam and tweaked the rear torsion bars for a nice stance with no effect on ride quality. Lowering is OK...just don't go overboard with it.
The cars from the early '50s thru '67 have the classic look, while the later cars have more features are generally more comfortable to drive. From '67 on they all have 12V electrics but a lot of the earlier cars have been upgraded from their original 6V systems. 12V = better lights & easier starting, along with the ability to easily add a decent radio/CD player.
Good luck with your search. Be patient...there are a lot of good examples out there. You can PM me with any questions if you'd like.

had a bunch of em. This info is spot on. Good luck. They are climbing in value every year.

[targa911S]

67 was the transition year for a lot of stuff. I think 68 was the best and yes you want a 1600. You want an 1835 really. Anything bigger is a ticking bomb.

[racer]

They are old, slow, noisy and rust. On the other hand is the nostalgia and simplicity.

Maybe you should find a few local ones and see if your wife likes them enough on the test drive to consider pursuing a purchase.

All that said, I have a hankering for a beetle convertible or a "thing".

[johnsjmc]

Wife also loves the 1960's Mustang's... waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of our budget.



If your budget is up to 5K you should be able to find a decent 65-68 Mustang for that. It won,t be a convertible or a fastback but a coupe should be still available in that range. Probably not a lot safer than a VW but the gas tank is in the rear,collasable steering column appeared in 1967 . They rust but Cali cars should be better than average
6 cyl cars would get mid teens around town and mid 20s highway. Tons of reproduction parts are available
Just looked at Craigslist in LA .Lots of good looking Mustangs are available in the 3-6 range

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Silly idea... how difficult would it be to downsize to 1300cc?

Don't know why you'd want to do that...a 1600 will be just as reliable, give nearly the same mpg and will have better bottom-end pull (less shifting). If you really wanted to do it, you'd need to swap out the 85.5mm pistons & barrels for a set with a 77.0mm bore diameter. You'll also need to find yourself a set of cylinder heads to fit those smaller cylinders...the 1600 heads won't work. The smaller heads will only have single intake ports and don't breath very well. Dual-port heads are a big improvement for a 1600...they became standard in '71.

Lots of very good info on A/C VWs here: VW Tech Articles Index - VW Parts and VW Tech from Aircooled.Net