who was it that got Greece into the EU under false pretenses?

was it Lehman Bros.?

ummm people who are rioting because they want more government are not anarchists

I agree, but will add a bit to it. I worked in a Socialist/Communist, Romania. 20+ years after the fall, the hatred/fear of the government was still there. Corruption (especially the police) was endemic. Business kickbacks to government were basically a cost of doing business.

I agree that austerity alone will not fix anything. The regulations, paper work, BS work and bureaucracy all need to be reduced. You can't make people entrepreneurs, but you can make the conditions right for those people to succeed.

In the word of Ian,
Hmmm. Not to parf up the thread, but this could apply closer to home.

Two words: eminent domain.

It seems to me that a few Greek politicians committing suicide (political or otherwise) might not be such a bad step towards fixing the problem.

So I looked into it a bit, and discovered that the Eurozone powers have successfully accomplished one of their goals.

Their banking system, in particular Germany's banks, have been mostly bailed and/or insulated from their ill-advised purchases of Greek govt debt. As of earlier this year, only about EUR60BN of Greek debt remains held by the private sector which includes Eurozone banks, and most of that has enhanced credit protections. The banks sold most of thier Greek debt and some was down. The rest, appx EUR240BN, is in public hands: EUR50BN held by the ECB and about EUR190BN by the EFSF which is in turn backed by the Eurozone govts.

So now, if Greece defaults, the losses will be mostly borne by the Eurozone govts, which means primarily by Germany who is the financial big man in Europe. As I explained before, most of the money to service that debt is, in the foreseeable future, coming from Germany and the other Eurozone govts. To oversimplify, money is going from the German govt to Greece and turning right back around to go back to the German govt.

ooh, creepy, bankruptcy that austerity alone has no hope of solving, corrupt government, where have I seen this, hmm...

When California implodes it will be worse than Greece

Good luck with that in Greece!

Empires fall. Always.
Fiat currencies collapse. Always.
The only thing to debate is timing.

Goldman

Goldman Secret Greece Loan Shows Two Sinners as Client Unravels - Bloomberg

I wonder how long we have here in the US.

The exodus continues:

"Coca-Cola Hellenic, the world's second biggest bottler of Coke, is moving its headquarters out of Greece, dealing a symbolic blow to the crisis-stricken eurozone economy. The company is Greece's biggest by market value ($7.6 billion) but generates only 5% of its business domestically.

Coca-Cola Hellenic (CCH) picked Switzerland as its new home, citing the country's stable economic and regulatory environment. It will also move its primary stock listing to the London Stock Exchange through a share exchange with Swiss-based Coca-Cola HBC AG. Coca-Cola Hellenic has listings in London, New York and Athens. It's also the largest holding in the Global X FTSE Greece 20 ETF (GREK), which lists the National Bank of Greece (NBG) as its second biggest holding." Source CNN Money

Ian