Ever flown in an aerial dog fight? Want to?

[masraum]

A coworker just came back from vacation and apparently got this as a gift from his brother.
Air Combat USA


According to my buddy, the experience went something like this. He and his brother got suited up with helmets and parachutes. They were taken up by a couple of retired military pilots (his had flown F-18s) in SIAI Marchetti SF-260s or possibly Extra 300Ls. The pilots get you into the air and to the combat area, then they let you take the stick and talk you through some maneuvers. Once you've had some time to get used to the maneuvers, you and (if you chose the 2 person deal) your buddy, are let loose to dog fight each other with the pilots talking you through the maneuvers. He said that there's a HUD with the cross-hairs and sounds including radar lock and when you get a hit, the other plane will trail smoke. He said that the flight time was about an hour which gave them time for several kills. He was told that they'd seen about 4.5Gs and that at the end, he could barely hold his head up. It sounds like a blast. I think his brother puked and my coworker thought that he might once or twice.

It sounds like a blast. I guess I need to start saving my pennies.

[UconnTim97]

Sounds like fun. I can think of a select few here that I would want to be my pilot.

[Dantilla]

I have heard that non-pilots frequently out-gun their pilot buddys, as licensed pilots are trained to not pull too many Gs, and fly too gently.
The airplanes used for this mock dogfighting are built just a tad more stout than a Cessna trainer, I guess......

[BReif61]

That sounds like it would be so cool, but if you have to ask how much...

[Bill Douglas]

LOL


You guys have too much fun

[doug_porsche]

yes i have.

I got lucky and both me and my adversary were novices. I shot him more than he shot me. Then we had lunch together.

It is fun

[john70t]

If you have excess money, stomach, and time to spend in Russia:
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Flight on MiG-29 jet figher. Fly MiG in Russia!
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Fly a MiG-29 in Russia - Supersonic Flight and Edge of Space: MiGFlug.com
Fly a MiG Fighter Jet in Russia - MiG Flights, Mig-29, Mig-31, Mig fighter jet rides
Top Gun adventures: Fly a legendary MiG Fighter Jet. MiG flights, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-21 Fighter Jet Rides. Top-Gun Flight Training.
Supersonic MiG Flight in Russia. Fly MiG at Supersonic Speed. » Go Aviator!
etc, etc, etc...

I've flown on a B-17, and got to do a few assisted rolls and loops in a Citabria.
Fun times.
If you haven't flown in small planes, there may be pilots at the local airport that will take you up as an inexpensive intro flight.

Otherwise, to get the fix I've done desk-jockey battles in front of a computer screen in the older "video game" IL2-1946 Ubisoft - IL-2 Sturmovik.
Excellent sim. Taken on swarms of enemies, and even sometimes made it back to base. One battle was in a ME109 against four expert Spits. Nasty buggers. Got three and wounded the last enough to RTB. Was shaking after that.

The latest version on that sim is: Homepage- IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover.
Watch the tutorials and the details: www.flightsimvids.com - By Søren Dalsgaard, copyright 2012

[mikester]

When I was approaching my twenties I worked for a guy who had two T-6 Texans at Chino Airport. When I had earned enough hours we would go up and chase each other around in the sky.

It was awesome.

[masraum]

For 2 guys, it's $2600, which doesn't really sound that bad to me for what you get.

Aermacchi SF.260 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Aermacchi SF.260 is a light aircraft marketed as an aerobatics and military trainer.

The military versions are popular with smaller air forces, which can also arm it for use in the close-support role.

[t6dpilot]

Yes, I did Air Combat USA years ago with my father (also a pilot). It was a total blast! We split, 3 kills each. My last one, I was down 2 to 3 and there was no way I was going to lose 2 to 4. We were chasing each other all over the sky and I finally maneuvered my way onto his tail - just barely. I was pulling 5 or 6 G's and my vision was closing in fairly quickly - grey out, then the circle getting smaller and smaller until the only thing I could see was the gun sight and the outline of his airplane. Then smoke - got him! And just before I was going to all black. "Knock it off, knock it off," was the next thing I heard and I released the stick so I could get blood flowing to my brain. I was wiped out after the 6 dog fights.

Remember lose sight, lose the fight.

I had a couple of friends that also owned T6's who liked to dog fight and we would go up and do that on occasion. What fun. You would run out of energy in that airplane pretty quick, so you had to manage it very carefully. And when you run out of energy, you had to be very careful not to stall out of the fight. The outcome is usually determined with the first pull. I remember one time being in a standoff, circling about 180 degrees from my opponent, milking the flaps in and out to try and gain a better position. Not happenin' since my friend was also doing the same thing. We got to the point that we were both looking at each other through the top of the canopy. I could hardly hold up my head at that point. Stalemate - knock it off, knock it off.

Great memories.

[id10t]

There are a couple of outfits in Florida that do this with WW2 vintage trainers.... IIRC St. Aug area has Navy trainers and somewhere down south has P51 trainers

[Drdogface]

I would spend my time vomiting ... but it does sound like a LOT of fun...

[t6dpilot]

The outfit with the P-51's is called Stallion 51 and is based in Kissimee, FL. I am pretty confident that they are not doing dog fighting with their Mustangs though.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by t6dpilot

Yes, I did Air Combat USA years ago with my father (also a pilot). It was a total blast! We split, 3 kills each. My last one, I was down 2 to 3 and there was no way I was going to lose 2 to 4. We were chasing each other all over the sky and I finally maneuvered my way onto his tail - just barely. I was pulling 5 or 6 G's and my vision was closing in fairly quickly - grey out, then the circle getting smaller and smaller until the only thing I could see was the gun sight and the outline of his airplane. Then smoke - got him! And just before I was going to all black. "Knock it off, knock it off," was the next thing I heard and I released the stick so I could get blood flowing to my brain. I was wiped out after the 6 dog fights.

Remember lose sight, lose the fight.

I had a couple of friends that also owned T6's who liked to dog fight and we would go up and do that on occasion. What fun. You would run out of energy in that airplane pretty quick, so you had to manage it very carefully. And when you run out of energy, you had to be very careful not to stall out of the fight. The outcome is usually determined with the first pull. I remember one time being in a standoff, circling about 180 degrees from my opponent, milking the flaps in and out to try and gain a better position. Not happenin' since my friend was also doing the same thing. We got to the point that we were both looking at each other through the top of the canopy. I could hardly hold up my head at that point. Stalemate - knock it off, knock it off.

Great memories.

Yeah, they don't go faster with more throttle - they just vibrate more.

[BE911SC]

Back in the mid-90s when I was still in the air force, another instructor and I were flying up the coast south of San Francisco, VFR below 2500 feet, on a sunny Saturday in a Beech T-1A trainer. (Chubby corporate jet. I called us the "fat kids" on base where T-37s and T-38s also operated.) So, there I was flying from the left seat and our TCAS was lit-up with all the other VFR traffic along the coast down near Half Moon Bay. I see two of these Air Combat types approach in formation, 10 o'clock high, opposite direction, about 1500 feet above us. I watch as they pass down our port side, high, and then see them break and dive down toward us. I immediately say, "No way!" and slam the power to the firewall and yank the nose up and into their "attack." Suddenly they have a face full of biz-jet climbing right at them and they immediately cancel their sneak-attack on us. I was laughing like crazy as I saw them zip by probably saying, "Oh ****" to themselves when they saw the stars and bars and the USAF. Later on I called my bay area buddy, also a pilot, and he said they probably weren't aware that we were a military airplane nor that we had TCAS or were even looking outside for traffic. "They probably just wanted to give their clients a thrill by sneaking up on you and then banking away unseen." Don't mess with the fat kids!

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by john70t

If you have excess money, stomach, and time to spend in Russia:
Fly the Mig 29 Fulcrum fighter jet in Russia - fly migs russia - fighter jet rides russia | Fly a jet fighter
Fly MiG 29 Jet Fighter. Supersonic Jet Flight | FlyFighterJet.com | FlyFighterJet.com | Fly a Jet, Fighter Jet Rides in Supersonic MiG-29
Fly a MiG jet fighter in Russia. MiG flights, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-21 fighter jet rides.
Flight on MiG-29 jet figher. Fly MiG in Russia!
Fly MIG 29 mig Moscow Russia Russian Fly
Fly a MiG-29 in Russia - Supersonic Flight and Edge of Space: MiGFlug.com
Fly a MiG Fighter Jet in Russia - MiG Flights, Mig-29, Mig-31, Mig fighter jet rides
Top Gun adventures: Fly a legendary MiG Fighter Jet. MiG flights, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-21 Fighter Jet Rides. Top-Gun Flight Training.
Supersonic MiG Flight in Russia. Fly MiG at Supersonic Speed. » Go Aviator!
etc, etc, etc...

I've flown on a B-17, and got to do a few assisted rolls and loops in a Citabria.
Fun times.
If you haven't flown in small planes, there may be pilots at the local airport that will take you up as an inexpensive intro flight.

Otherwise, to get the fix I've done desk-jockey battles in front of a computer screen in the older "video game" IL2-1946 Ubisoft - IL-2 Sturmovik.
Excellent sim. Taken on swarms of enemies, and even sometimes made it back to base. One battle was in a ME109 against four expert Spits. Nasty buggers. Got three and wounded the last enough to RTB. Was shaking after that.

The latest version on that sim is: Homepage- IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover.
Watch the tutorials and the details: www.flightsimvids.com - By Søren Dalsgaard, copyright 2012

I dogfight on the computers with my daugter. When we play Strike Fighters she flys an F4 and I fly a MiG21. 3 miles and out she can smoke me often enough but inside that she doesn't have enough experience with energy management if the fight drags on. The high g yo-yo and vertical rolling sciscors she does OK but bleeds energy fast because she forgets to lag in behind me on some manuevers. Joe could probably give her some lessons there.

WWII era she does well, but she likes the lighter, more nimble fighters of the day. Crimson Skies is another oldie but goodie for dogfights over a LAN.

The real dogfighting here would be a blast. If anyone is giving away a spare ticket I wouldn't let it go to waste. I have heard of old grannies taking a private pilot to task in these dogfights. Probably because they don't know what limits are and are willing to listen where a lot of pps think they know the limits.

[matt711]

I'd probably vomit, followed by pissing myself.... Looks like fun but I don't think I could handle it.

-Matt

[ckissick]

Originally Posted by UconnTim97

I can think of a select few here that I would want to be my pilot.

I can think of a select few I'd like to shoot down!

[kimlangley7]

That looks way cool... I'd probablly lose my lunch.. but .. definitely on my bucket list

[Superman]

If there was an all-Pelicanhead dogfight, I wonder who would be first to go down, and who would be last. I'd guess the poopyheads would go down first. The last guy standin' might be Mr. Higgins or Dantilla. Probably Joe, though. Since he can fly planes and all.......