bookshelves with thick shelves, how would you?

[masraum]

I have had a request come down from on high to build bookshelves onto a wall in a room. I've done a couple of others. They've always been out of premium (no knots) 1" pine. I've always used dados to support the shelves. This time, I'd like to do something a bit different. I've seen (pictures, TV) lots of stuff where the shelves and/or uprights looked thick, like 1.5-3" thick. How would you accomplish that? I suppose I could basically just glue the boards X2 and then make sure that the front face is smooth (cut/sand). Is there a better way. In some of the stuff that I've seen online, it looks like they've just used 1x2" pressboard on the edge to give the appearance of a thicker piece. That has also allowed the use of 1x2" supports for the shelves rather than dados. I'm just not sure that won't look too home made.

[mossguy]

The look on the last set appears to be face frame rather than shelf thickness.

[masraum]

OK, well, continued searching revealed...

How to Build a Bookcase: Step-by-Step Woodworking Plans - Popular Mechanics





Including more pictures and step by step instructions. It looks like this guy did a combination of the techniques that I'd mentioned.

[masraum]

One more question, for the shelf aprons, vertical stiles valance and rails, what would you use if you were going to paint the stuff? Would you get a real wood or the manufactured MDF/press board stuff. I'm not a huge fan. How durable is that stuff?

[masraum]

Here's another similar take.
It seems like most of these are made from plywood except for the face pieces.

[dipso]

Make the whole thing out of real wood. I paint wall units all the time, have never seen a MDF one. The MDF ones are usually covered in melamine. Total garbage.

Usually the wood is about 3/4" maybe 5/8", and the stiles are faced wider, the shelves are faced thicker, the header is faced taller, etc.
Whatever you do, make it out of real wood or you won't even be able to use it for firewood in about 6 months when it bows and collapses.

It doesn't have to be expensive wood, just a solid paint grade.

This one used to be whitewashed oak. Very 80's.

[Hydrocket]

Originally Posted by dipso

Make the whole thing out of real wood. I paint wall units all the time, have never seen a MDF one. The MDF ones are usually covered in melamine. Total garbage.

We had a wardrobe custom built into the wall for my wife. We deliberately asked to have it made in MDF, as we didn't see the value added of real wood....for just a wardrobe to hold clothes. The contruction is also rather robust.

It looks fantastic, and uses the technique of making the shelves/cubbies look larger than they are. I'll try and get a picture up.

[sc_rufctr]

OK.... Brackets fixed to the wall (could be steel) and then a shelf made from two pieces of wood top and bottom and a front piece. Gap between top and bottom to fit, slip over (hide) the brackets.

This way you can make them and thickness you want. You could also make them so they are "floating" with no visible support either side.

Does any of that make sense... lols.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by dipso

Make the whole thing out of real wood. I paint wall units all the time, have never seen a MDF one. The MDF ones are usually covered in melamine. Total garbage.

Usually the wood is about 3/4" maybe 5/8", and the stiles are faced wider, the shelves are faced thicker, the header is faced taller, etc.
Whatever you do, make it out of real wood or you won't even be able to use it for firewood in about 6 months when it bows and collapses.

It doesn't have to be expensive wood, just a solid paint grade.

This one used to be whitewashed oak. Very 80's.

Nice looking unit. When I mentioned MDF, I was speaking of just the face pieces, not the uprights and shelves. When I moved in to this house, there was a closet in the garage that had some shelves. The shelves had apparently gone in with whatever the PO had laying around which meant, MDF, plywood and pine boards. The worst warping were the MDF, then plywood and then pine. That's why I've always built with either pine or oak. I'll have to see which would be more expensive for the uprights, pine or ply, when I make this next one.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

OK.... Brackets fixed to the wall (could be steel) and then a shelf made from two pieces of wood top and bottom and a front piece. Gap between top and bottom to fit, slip over (hide) the brackets.

This way you can make them and thickness you want. You could also make them so they are "floating" with no visible support either side.

Does any of that make sense... lols.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by Hydrocket

We had a wardrobe custom built into the wall for my wife. We deliberately asked to have it made in MDF, as we didn't see the value added of real wood....for just a wardrobe to hold clothes. The contruction is also rather robust.

It looks fantastic, and uses the technique of making the shelves/cubbies look larger than they are. I'll try and get a picture up.

That might be fine to hold folded clothes or hanging clothes if the pole is secured to the walls. I would not trust MDF to hang heavy jackets on and definitely know it would not support 4 or 5 shelves of books.
It bows.

[stonorobert]

This way you can make them and thickness you want.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by masraum

Nice looking unit. When I mentioned MDF, I was speaking of just the face pieces, not the uprights and shelves. When I moved in to this house, there was a closet in the garage that had some shelves. The shelves had apparently gone in with whatever the PO had laying around which meant, MDF, plywood and pine boards. The worst warping were the MDF, then plywood and then pine. That's why I've always built with either pine or oak. I'll have to see which would be more expensive for the uprights, pine or ply, when I make this next one.

Oh, I don't think MDF face pieces would work. They don't have a hard square corner. And are easy to chip/ break, Especially when you are pulling something out from behind the lip or face edge.

I think you would have a hard time milling a 3" face frame or 1 1/2" shelf face out of MDF and then finishing it decently.
It would be worth your time and money to just buy 3" or whatever " you plan on using. Out of already cut Pine.
It's stronger and has a straighter edge.

You're going to paint this, right?

[futurefun]

MDF also off gasses formaldehyde. Cabinet maker buddies have no love for it.

[masraum]

Yes, it's going to be painted, and that was my thought about the corners chipping.

I've never before used MDF for anything but testing hammers ability to destroy things. It sounds like I won't be changing my ways now.

[look 171]

Steve,

A couple of questions first. what type of fronts does your design call for? 1st pic or like Dipso's? If you want the fronts to sit flat (with the face frame), then you can go ahead and use dados to support the shelves, then glue on a face frame over the whole thing, fill and paint. If you like adj. shelves like the 1st pic or dipso's, then you need to build up the edging and have the shelves sit inside the face frame. Now, onto the edging. Use 3/4" plywood, spline or biscuit and glue on the 1 1/2" or 2" x 3/4 solid wood edging (face of edging to edge of 3/4" plywood). YOu can nail and glue, but the other method is much stronger. My favorite is to have a 1 1/2" edge tape right over double thickness plywood or mdf. Having tape on there paints better then without. Lots of cabinet makers will paint without tape and smear spackle over the edge and paint. I refuse to do that. Shelving should be kept to a 36" max span unless its double thickness then I might go up to 48". I am not a big fan of MDF shelves because they sag under a good load, but have done it many times in the past requested by designers. MDF sure as heck take paint well. MDF sides are fine unless you are loading a ton of books on the selves with little shelf pins. I have built lots of MDF paint grade bookshelves and have not had one fail on me, because they are all under 36", usually 24-30" Do you have a plan or pic of the shelves?

Jeff

[kach22i]

Paint Grade: MDO plywood with solid wood end caps.

Stain Grade: Baltic Birch plywood with solid Birch end caps.

ALTERNATE: You could hardwood veneer MDF and cap with a matching species of wood.

.................................................. ..........

Double and or double plywood with middle spacer for desired thickness.

And dowel/biscuit/glue as required.

The fast easy/lazy way: buy something form Ikea and drywall/trim around it.

[johnco]

I built all these shelves out of 3/4 MDF. each shelf held 4-5 bottles deep. no supports except for the 1 under each end. never sagged and never chipped over several years of use. were not high quality shelving but they did the job for what we had to spend at the time

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

If you want the fronts to sit flat (with the face frame), then you can go ahead and use dados to support the shelves, then glue on a face frame over the whole thing, fill and paint. Now, onto the edging. Use 3/4" plywood, spline or biscuit and glue on the 1 1/2" or 2" x 3/4 solid wood edging (face of edging to edge of 3/4" plywood). Shelving should be kept to a 36" max span. Do you have a plan or pic of the shelves?

Jeff

I think I'll be doing face frame with dados. The shelves will all be less than 36". I've got a biscuit slot cutter, so I'll be using those. Plan? Not yet, I'm building that in my head. Eventually, I'll draw something up, but nothing yet.

Originally Posted by kach22i

Paint Grade: MDO plywood with solid wood end caps.

.................................................. ..........

Double and or double plywood with middle spacer for desired thickness.

And dowel/biscuit/glue as required.

The fast easy/lazy way: buy something form Ikea and drywall/trim around it.

Thanks, it sounds like I'll be using plywood, wood facing and biscuits.

Originally Posted by johnco

I built all these shelves out of 3/4 MDF. each shelf held 4-5 bottles deep. no supports except for the 1 under each end. never sagged and never chipped over several years of use. were not high quality shelving but they did the job for what we had to spend at the time

Wow, that's impressive. I would definitely have expected those to sag under that much weight.

[Robert Adams]

Don't have pretty pictures but I use veneer solid core material for the shelves (maple or birch) and veneer plywood for the uprights. Then face the edges with a good quality veneered or real wood (poplar or match the veneer wood); don't use the tape stuff it splits and chips easily as time goes on. No short cuts for a solid professional job; garbage in, garbage out, pretty simple formula. Could probably get away with MDF for the shelf facing instead but then you have to deal with the joint detail and the mixing of materials. They will absorb moisture differently. I've also just left the shelf edge show if I have used a good veneer plywood; very Ikea-ish but you may need to fill it a bit and if you stain the filler will show, so only good if painting or leaving natural.
To get the build-up look, going 2x with veneer plywood is going to be expensive not to mention heavy, so if it were me I would still use the veneer solid core plywood on the show side but maybe a good one side plywood or the MDF on the underside where its not seen. Facing I would use maple or poplar depending on finish to be used. I once used hollow core doors in a walk-in closet for the thickness and just painted them, actually looked and worked pretty good, but not fine furniture!
I use either a Mohack rumbing stain and use Bona Seal floor finish (2) coats, sand lightly (600) in between. When done it looks awesome! Better than factory, the deep richness of the wood comes through and smooth as a baby's beghind.
Painting, I use an Zinnger/Bins oil primer or their smelly alhohol based primer, followed by Benj Moore Aura, but maybe their semi gloss would work just as well.
Key is sanding between ALL coats and make sure the primer has no raised areas. I actually do 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of paint sanding in between. The Aura seems to work well in high use areas like shelving. Just let it dry/cure for a couple of days before loading up.
That's what has worked for me, good luck!