PPOT - help me choose a plow/utility truck

[jwasbury]

My wife and I are acquiring a 2nd home in the country (weekend, vacation, hurricane, and zombie apocalypse retreat). I believe a pick'em up truck is pretty much a mandatory tool to maintain the property and have included this in the overall budget for this "project." I am interested in everyone's input on what to look for, and look out for. I have owned both GM and Ford full size trucks in the past, never had anything Chrysler.

I have budgeted up to 12k for the vehicle based on my cursory searches of what is available in a 50mi radius. I plan on at least a 3/4 ton. I have my eye on a couple of trucks that fit the profile: a 2001 GMC Sierra 2500 with 105k miles and a fischer plow (about 9k asking price), and a 2006 Ford F250 XLT with 111k miles and a Western plow (about 12k asking price).

The plowing duties for this vehicle will not be very extreme, but I figure if I am getting a pickup anyway, may as well have it plow equipped too. Having the storage space and a pickup also opens up interesting future possibilites for track cars and trailers

Please share your experiences and help me make a good choice. Thanks.

[kaisen]

If you're going to hang a plow on the front of a pickup, it would be wise to buy one with a solid front axle. Preferably one with front leaf springs, although that's minor.

Independent front suspension or Ford's old Twin-I-Beam don't handle a plow as well.

So I'd advise a 1999-2003 Ford F250/F350 gasser as being the best plow trucks out there. The newer 2004-up versions are great too, they just utilize the front coil spring suspension with more trailing arms and links that don't like the pressures plowing can exert. But that may be splitting hairs. It's still way better than a GM IFS, and equal to the Dodge (almost exactly the same coil set-up).

A diesel just adds several hundred pounds over that same front axle that's carrying the plow. Diesels also have larger cooling requirements and struggle with low-speed high-load plowing.

The plow itself is a Coke/Pepsi choice. There are differences in the mounts, the pumps, positioning, controls, etc that you may develop a preference for. Articulating V-plows can be good for residential/hobby-farm plowing as you can direct the snow better. But they are way heavier, more complex, and more money. Otherwise consider adding wings. Or maybe you have enough area off the driveways/pads to push snow where it isn't a concern.



In my opinion, an expensive plow truck never pays for itself. Either have a dedicated old beater plow rig (wood hauler/farm truck in Summer), or stick the $2-4K plow-premium into a tractor, skidsteer, snowblower, or 4-wheeler w/ plow. If you still need a pickup for trailering and such, buy a nice one and keep the plow off of it.

This coming from a Minnesotan that has spent more time in a plow truck then I care to mention.

[kaisen]

Oh, and buying a truck with a plow already on it may seem like a savings...... but plowing is VERY hard on a truck and the one you buy may be riddled with past abuses and will cost you more in the short run (transmissions, axles, suspension components, the plow mechanicals themselves, etc)

You may be better off buying the truck first and a new or used plow later. Esp if you can hang the plow yourself (install). That way you can get a good truck that hasn't seen the abuse Your light personal use from here on out won't be so bad.

You can do thousands in damage to a truck's mechanicals in ONE PLOWING SESSION if you don't know what you're doing and don't know when to take it easy. You don't want to buy a plow truck that saw that type of use. Potential time bomb.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by kaisen

...or stick the $2-4K plow-premium into a tractor, skidsteer, snowblower, or 4-wheeler w/ plow. If you still need a pickup for trailering and such, buy a nice one and keep the plow off of it.

This coming from a Minnesotan that has spent more time in a plow truck then I care to mention.

All true. While we don't get the frequency of snow here in Maryland, we do get dumped on every other year, often well over 8 inches back to back storms. I have a drive way that is over 1/2 mile in length.

If you need a tractor, or one comes with the place, make sure it has a PTO and buy a larger snow blower that is run off the PTO.

Heavy, wet snow is hard to plow unless you have a 4x4 set up.

[Joeaksa]

If you are pushing or pulling anything, hard to beat a truck with a Cummins in it.

[gatotom]

I have been plowing snow over 25 yrs and have gone thru a few trucks, my latest is a bought new 96 Chev heavy 1/2T 4x4 with a 5 spd stick. it has served me well, have only replaced the clutch once.

It plows an ave. of over 100 inches per yr and on a heavy yr 250 inches and that's cascade mtns concrete. It plows my driveway about 300 yards, parking lot at house, my office parking lot and sometimes the 1.2 mile private road I live on and this is with the same meyer snowplow for the last 25 yrs. Have replaced hydralic lines and springs on the plow, this yr I have to paint the plow but am kinda late on that on, next yr.

A ideal setup, IMHO is a snowplow and a snow blower that would clean up the edges cuz you get squeezed in pretty fast with just a plow which is what I do. I also have a neighbor who has a Kubota 4x4 with blower and he usually cleans up the driveway since he lives behind our house a 1/4 mile.

[jwasbury]

Thanks for inputs thus far.

I understand that plowing is tough on the vehicle, but in my case I know that the plowing duties I will ask of the truck are pretty mild. I have considered (as suggested) looking at trucks that are not plow equipped, and to my surprise, it doesn't appear to be much of a premium (if any).

Have also looked at other machines (tractors or ATVs) that can do double duty as property maintenance and snow removal tools. What I see is that the tractors with PTOs, once accessorized with snowblowers, end up costing nearly the same as a plow truck. I may end up farming out the lawn care to a landscaper anyway, so I have to think about how much $ I want to lay out on a tractor.

Appreciate the advice on solid front axle and opinions on GM IFS. If I am focusing on Ford products, any particular engine/trans options to seek out or avoid? While I like diesels, I don't think its worth the premium for my application anyhow.

Re: Dodge Cummins...on cars.com, there is only one 3/4 Dodge for sale within 100mi radius of my home. Either they didn't sell many around here, or no one wants to sell theirs.

[kaisen]

In your price range, in a gas Ford (if that's the way you're leaning), your choices will be the 5.4L V8 or the 6.8L V10. They're essentially similar, just two more cylinders. In 2005 they added 3 valve-per-cylinders and variable valve timing. A lot more power, from either engine, without really impacting fuel economy. It did add complexity, and you have to watch out for failed cam phasers.

My comment about plowing being hard on the truck wasn't about your future light use, but its historical, potentially hard use. Buyer beware.

Are you thinking Regular Cab, Super Cab, Crew Cab? Short Box, Long Box?

[Joeaksa]

Jacob,

I have a 2002 2500 and love the puppy. Have had it for 3 years now and paid $12.5k for it then. A few small issues but otherwise love the truck. I get almost double the fuel mileage that a friend of mine with an F-250 does and the Cummins with proper oil changes should last 500k miles.

I would not sell mine... but you can find them out there.

[Joeaksa]

One thing that Kaisen brings up, if you are looking at a Ford F series, do NOT get the early 6.0 engines. The 7.3 is a lot better, as are the newer model trucks but they had a lot of trouble with the 6 liter engines.

I used to drive a V-10 F-250 (work truck) and it was fine but boy did that puppy suck the gas. Glad I was not paying the fuel bill so before you buy one check with other owners on this.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Jacob,

I have a 2002 2500 and love the puppy. Have had it for 3 years now and paid $12.5k for it then. A few small issues but otherwise love the truck. I get almost double the fuel mileage that a friend of mine with an F-250 does and the Cummins with proper oil changes should last 500k miles.

I would not sell mine... but you can find them out there.

I got Joe's back on this one. Love my Ram. Dont think i'd ever buy another gas engine truck

[kaisen]

6.0 and 7.3 Fords are diesels. I would not make a diesel into a plowtruck.

You've got to be honest with yourself about how many miles a year you'll be driving the truck, and how it will be used. If it's truly a hobby-farm truck used locally, fuel economy won't figure into things all that much.

In my experience, having owned both 5.4Ls and a V10, there isn't a huge difference. Both suck fuel. The V10 isn't working as hard under load. Gearing and tires make as big a difference in fuel consumption as the motor, in this case. Joe talks about the fantastic fuel economy of his Cummins, aided no doubt by the fact it's a 2WD Regular Cab manual transmission with 3.XX gearing. It would be a completely different story if it were a 4WD MegaCab Automatic with 4.XX gears.

YMMV

[jwasbury]

I will be looking exclusively at extended cab models, long box. Don't want crew cab or regular cab. I don't expect this truck to accumulate a lot of miles annually, but I could see pressing it into to service as a winter vehicle for errand duty and running between my primary home in JC and the "farm" (in Bucks County, PA).

This way I could keep the CTS-V wagon off the road if/when there is salt around. Long haul track car trailering is possible someday down the road, but my current track rig is streetable, and I expect this will remain the case for a couple years minimum.

In no case is this going to be a daily use vehicle...my daily commute involves walking and subway travel only. As a 4th vehicle in the household, 5k miles annually is probably a generous usage assumption.

I'll take on board for sure the recommendation to buy a truck that doesn't have a plow (and the wear and tear from it) already.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

I will be looking exclusively at extended cab models, long box. Don't want crew cab or regular cab. I don't expect this truck to accumulate a lot of miles annually, but I could see pressing it into to service as a winter vehicle for errand duty and running between my primary home in JC and the "farm" (in Bucks County, PA).

In no case is this going to be a daily use vehicle...my daily commute involves walking and subway travel only. As a 4th vehicle in the household, 5k miles annually is probably a generous usage assumption.

I have the extended cab and like it, but as well have the long bed (wanted to be able to haul things, this is not a show truck) and its long enough right now. Two more doors would make it longer than I want it and parking aint fun right now anyways...

Mine is more or less a daily driver. Just done over 500 miles since my last fillup (have 89 gallons of tanks onboard) and am getting 22.8 pure in-town driving. Good enough for me...

[dad911]

Forget the plow and buy the truck you want. When you get a property, then evaluate your needs..... You may want a small tractor, or an ATV.

I plow my 200'+ driveway with a 4wd quad. Have been for the last 10+ years..... Only thing I've used that was better for clearing snow was a skid-steer loader.

[Superman]

I have a picture somewhere of my brother-in-law's Ford (I'd say early '70's) 3/4T 4WD truck with chains on all fours and snow piled at least six feet deep in the bed. It also has a propane tank at the front of the bed. Switchable fuel. I bet that thing weighed eight thousand pounds. It snowed at least a foot each night for the six days I was there. That snow was no match for that truck.

[pete3799]

Originally Posted by Superman

I have a picture somewhere of my brother-in-law's Ford (I'd say early '70's) 3/4T 4WD truck with chains on all fours and snow piled at least six feet deep in the bed. It also has a propane tank at the front of the bed. Switchable fuel. I bet that thing weighed eight thousand pounds. It snowed at least a foot each night for the six days I was there. That snow was no match for that truck.

Did it look something like this?

That's an 86 dodge that i had to retire with a 95 4-runner beside it (also retired).
Use this now

[Soterik]

Unless you live there full time best to just hire out the plowing, more than likely there will be more than a few people who do this as a part time gig during the winter. Plowing isn't cheap, but what's your time worth? I'd rather be skiing, watching football, working on my P car etc while I'm at the cabin.

Just imagine not showing up at your winter cabin for a couple of weeks after there's been a couple of "major" snow dumps... how are you going to drive into your property where the plow truck is stored?

We've got a second home in the mountains not far from "gatotom", so you can see what we get for snow each winter. I think our plow bill is $500 to $750 a year. it's nice to show up and find our driveway plowed.

If you do decide to hire out the plowing, make sure that you find out where you will be on the list. I made sure we found a guy that would do us early so that we don't have any issues when we head out the door heading up to the mountain.

E

[jwasbury]

As expected, the PPOT forum has rendered a plethora of opinions from pay someone else to plow, to use a tractor or ATV, to if you insist on a plow truck make sure it's got a solid front axle. All valid and helpful perspectives for me to consider.

The property we are acquiring is pretty flat, and the driveway isn't all that long, or large. It is large enough that I don't want to be using a shovel. A plow is probably overkill, and the average snowfall in Bucks County PA isn't anything massive (but you will get ocaissional blizzards). Plowing the driveway area will probably be a 5 minute exercise with a full size truck/rig. Probably as much or more time will be spent hooking up the "minute mount" plow than the actual plowing.

I suppose I gravitate towards having a plow capable truck and a plow set up because when it's necessary, I figure it will be the fastest and most comfortable way to clean up the drive. I am convinced that a pick up truck is an absolute necessity with this property. We will have over 13 acres (all but 1-2 acres wooded), a large barn, a pool, etc. I will need the truck to make dump runs, trips to the nursery and garden center, home improvement store, etc. Once I count on a truck, the incremental cost to add a plow rig is pretty nominal. On the other hand, the incremental cost of adding a tractor with PTO and snowblower, or an ATV can actually be quite high. I will also need some sort of machine to help maintain the grounds, but I am leaning towards a simpler lawn tractor. Something that can be used for mowing, leaf collection, and pull a small utility trailer to haul loads of clippings and other organic detritus around. Those machines are pretty cheap, but when you step up to a "real" compact tractor, those things get spendy damn quick. I don't see myself needing that serious of a yard machine...time will tell I suppose.

Thanks again for all the input.

[gprsh924]

Get an ATV with a plow. Fun to plow. And fun to explore the 13 acres with