Help me get the guts to drop my engine!
 

Hello all,

I know this is sortof a tech forum kind of post but since I have posted here most and it really is more of a encouragement/allay my fears kind of post I thought I'd post it here.

I think the time has come in my Porsche ownership to bite the bullet and finally drop an engine. I bought my first Porsche about 10 years ago. It was a blue 1984 911 Targa. I bought it thinking I would learn to work on it. That thing never had an issue. Drove it for 4 years and just did oil changes. I sold it about 5 years ago and was without a Porsche for a couple years.

About 18 months ago I bought my second Porsche. This one is a red 1985 911 Coupe. I bought it because I really wanted a coupe to begin with and again, I wanted to learn to work on these cars. The car has run pretty well, I did a shifter adjustment to it and took off the aftermarket spoiler that was on it. When I changed the oil about 5 months ago it started to leak...bad. I know all Porsche's leak but this one REALLY leaks now. It leaked some before but nothing I couldn't handle with putting the catch basin under the engine when I got done driving it. After I changed the oil I noticed more leaking than before. It continued to worsen to the point I could no longer cover all the drip spots with just my catch basin. So I went to the local autostore and bought some of that oil absorbing cloth that you can put under the car, it's supposed to hold something like 3 quarts of oil before it saturates. I thought that would solve the problem until Spring. About a week ago I had the garage door open on that side and noticed that there were little rivers of oil coming from under the car. I looked underneath and the entire cloth is saturated and the oil has begun spreading across the garage floor. Pics are below, remember this is in addition to the oil absorbent material underneath the car which is supposedly holding at least a quart or two. This amount of leakage has happened in about two months:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1357788604.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1357788615.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1357788627.jpg

My lovely wife has agreed to give me some money to put towards fixing this issue after we get back from our DisneyWorld trip in a couple of weeks. I could take the car to a local Porsche shop here (well regarded) but when I ran the situation by them a few months ago they said it could be several thousand dollars to drop the engine, locate the leak, fix it and reinstall the engine. I would like to clean everything up while the engine is out, steam clean the engine and maybe refinish the cooling fan and such but that would require me doing this engine drop and leak fix myself.

I've only done little jobs on my cars, I have never done major work on a car before and I'm a bit afraid I'm going to get knee deep into it and not know how to get myself back to a running car again.

So, if you were me, what would you do here?

Jack the car up in the air on jackstands and find where it's leaking from. You might want to wash the underside of the engine first.

You might not have to drop the engine. Take pictures.

Rick, if you're mechanically inclined you can do it. Patience, tools, a little advice.. You'll be fine!

You can do it! It's super fun! Al you need is some tools and some advice, easily found here. But as mentioned earlier, you might not have to drop the engine. Get it up on jack stands ( you have jack stands, right?) and look under there. Take pictures for us if you need opinions. It might be really obvious what to fix, and you might be able to fix it with the engine in the car. Keep us posted. good luck. :)

I say go for it. I know it's a bit scary but once you take a look, its just nuts and bolts plus you have a great resource here to help along the way!

Yeah, step one is to see if I can locate exactly where the leak is when I get back from vacation. Maybe I'll get lucky...somehow I doubt it though, lol. That's my usual luck!

It is no-where near as bad as you think. Label the connections.

Clean the engine first! Mine leaked from the oil return tubes and the oil lines feeding the cam tensioners. I didn't have to pull the engine to fix them. It leaked a lot , now, not at all.

My first engine drop was a fantastic experience. Lots of Pelicans, complete strangers to me at the time, showed up in a caravan of 911s with tools and beer, ready to work. I've done it so many times now, it's a breeze. Very rewarding experience.

Where in Dallas area you? I can help drop it, still working on putting it al back together...

Check where the leak is coming from first. Thermostat housing is common on the 3.2 along with oil return tubes ,valve covers ect. Theres a good chance you wont need to drop it, but even if you decide to its no big deal. 2 hour job.

If it's one or two return tubes, I have a few new collapsable ones I can send you. I have no use for them.

Do it; yesterday. It's much easier than you think. Find some locals here who will help you.

Nothing compares to the feeling of helplessness when you pass the point of no return, EXCEPT the overwhelming feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction when you get it back together and running. That feeling is exponentially greater.

Have a plan. Have the tools. Have a wi-fi computer near by. Call your friends, or make new friends by hosting a little partry slash bbq. Just do it.

Yep. I helped on a few engine drops, and dropped the engine on both my 73E and my '95 993C2. No big deal.

just 2 bolts in the rear to drop... nothing to it

One of the first 911 projects that I ever did was an engine drop after the clutch pivot pin sheared on my 1970 911T. With a lot of helpful advice from the tech forum I had it out in 2 hours working alone, though Kurt (Rot 911) did offer to drive from MO to help me (!). I'm glad I didn't have him waste his time, because it really is easy and you have a huge amount of support here. Being in Dallas I'm sure you can provide beer and food to get a small army of helpers.:)

Pull the engine and transmission as a unit. Its not that difficult. Just take your time.

Like others have suggested, clean it up and try to locate leak first. could be something simple.

Check your lower valve covers. If they are not snug they can leak quite a bit as the car is cooling down. My second guess would be the oil return crush tubes.

Take your time. Get the proper equipment first before you begin. Go thru a couple "dry runs" going over each step involved and what tools you'll need to do it. I spent a week sitting in a comfortable chair with Waynes book going over each step.

Most importantly, just enjoy it, you only get to do your first drop, once.

Ok, you guys convinced me. Operation Oil Leak begins in a couple weeks!! Thanks for the encouragement and offers of help. Neil I live in Keller, not sure how far that is from you. I'll probably put up a cry for help post if I do have to drop it and offer frosty beers as payment.

Do it! As the others have stated the sense of accomplishment is overwhelming if you have never done it. I have a low miles 930 that I pulled the engine and trans to do a clutch. Found a broken head stud and ended up tearing it down to the block, everything but splitting the case. A few while you are there upgrades and back together with it. Took about a years time as I got busy at work and really had not planned on a rebuild.

What I found is this site is a huge resource for knowledge but even more so for stand-up, character guys. Found a local and fellow 930 owner to borrow tools from, he spent 2 Saturdays in a hot Houston garage in July (easily over 100 degrees) helping me get the heads on and cams timed. Not to mention the guys that make Porches their business willing to answer questions. Between Glen at Pelican, Turbokraft, and EBS Racing there is not a question you could'nt get an answer for. I bought parts or services from all of them just to "spread it around". I think Chris at Turbokraft even gave me a contact for a helpful guy in CO to call about a transmission problem.

Our local PCA rag always states it's not the cars it's the people. BS if you ask me, this site is about the people, although I have met only a handful of Pelicans I feel like I know most of you regular posters. If you can't pull an engine to fix oil leaks with the help of the people on this board then you have seriously pissed someone off. Best of luck, I would do it again in a heartbeat!

Oh yeah, buy Wayne's book!

Dropping the motors the easy part, but your all leaving out the fact that once the motors removed it undoubtedly turns into a "while your in there" project. :p

With a leak that bad, there's a good chance it's just the oil pressure sender on top of the engine.

If that's it, it's a $10 part and 1/2 hour of time to replace.

Seems crazy to me to drop an engine without first finding the source of the leak.

As others have stated, don't drop the motor yet. Get the thing steam cleaned first and reevaluate the leaks. My money is on the oil return tubes leaking. Secondary leaks being thermostat oring, oil pressure switch, and cam feed lines. None of these require pulling the engine.

Cam feed lines, and three oil return tubes cost me a day or less and less than $100 IIRC, not a drop of oil in 8 years.

Thats what I thought, but for some reason I said thermostat in my eariler post. Going back and forth between the Porsche and an American CTS gets confusing at times.

What dDan said. I pulled mine and it took five years to get it back together.

Most oil leaks, esp. ones that spring up that quickly and are leaking that much, can be fixed easily with the engine in the car.

so the odds are highly in your favor that you don't need to take the engine out.

Well, I will cross my fingers that an drop won't be needed.

How do I go about getting the engine steam cleaned? Is there somewhere I can rent one or is it better to drive the car to a place that does this??

They usually have a place you take the car to, put it up on a lift, and then spray the underside. Call local detailing shops. Im sure they will know.

Ok will do. Thanks!

Can you take a picture of the underside of the motor and post it?
Might be something obvious that someone will see.

'Tis a piece of cake, man. The thing that takes the longest is removing the twelve CV joint bolts.

In the Pacific Northwest, all you need to do is announce the date, put beer in the fridge, fire up the barbecue, and the crew shows up.

Maybe Texans aren't as friendly or helpful as us liberals, but it works like a charm in the Pacific Northwest. <wink> Then we post pictures.

Well, I have a feeling that Texas Pelicans would be just as ready to lend a hand (and relieve me of some beer and barbecue ribs...) but I guess we'll see if the time comes!!

Now I have to talk with the wife about how to get a little elbow room in that garage...

Jim! I still have 'the pallet' in the garage.

Clean it up first and ID what's leaking. Fix what makes sense now, you might not need to drop it. Once you do, keep Pelican on speed dial. :)

Ya got that right!

Did you literally use a pallet? Because I did, and figured I was the only one redneck enough to do so. Strap engine to pallet, strap pallet to floor jack, carefully balance and block often on the way down to avoid disaster. It actually worked pretty well, though now that I'm not poor I'd just go buy a transmission jack instead.

But of course. Custom cut to fit the engine, used on several local cars. Used a motorcycle jack though. Yeah, redneck I guess. Works great. :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/Lu2_052403.JPG

As you can see here, the m/c jack and pallet under engine, and tranny jack under, you guessed it, the tranny. Works like a charm.