Audiophiles: PC as a Music Source

[imcarthur]

About a year ago, I decided to kill my audio system & make it home theater only. To maintain my music fix, I started researching & building a music playback system that was computer based. Music is now recorded almost exclusively in the digital realm. DAWs rule the studios with the few tape-based analogue systems & record lathes gathering dust in the storage rooms in Nashville, NYC, LA etc. I have heard great analogue systems & I accept that there is an analogue �magic�. Not necessarily accuracy but certainly �magic�. But that is another discussion.

Apple has always been at the forefront of the digital music world with their �money factory� iTunes & their Core technology. While the vast majority of users don�t even tap the real audiophile potential of their Macs, if you are really interested, look up Amarra for playback & MAX for accurate ripping. I know iTunes rips easily but it is not the best if you are after ultimate quality.

However, since I am a PC guy . . .

During my research, I have talked with many �experts� & experimented with a lot of the available music players. Media Monkey, Foobar2000, Windows Media, J. River, VLC, iTunes etc etc. They all offer playback of various music media types & varying degrees of success with music cataloging.

Sound cards are another major topic but many of them are aimed at the gaming market. M-Audio, Turtle Beach, Asus & others do make cards with decent audio chipsets for D/A conversion. Many PCs also have built-in sound now with Realtek being a dominant force. But PCs are a nasty environment for delicate audio signals & you are usually better off to get the signal out of the PC & do your conversion in an outboard DAC. Cambridge Audio (insert my personal disclaimer here), Benchmark, Arcam, Wadia etc etc make good examples.

To get the signal out of your PC, USB is the easiest but it is compromised unless you step up to the plate with the latest Asyncronous USB technology. This is being touted as �the answer� by many since it solves the competing clock issue where your PC clocks the digital signal & then your DAC re-clocks it & this double clocking can lead to signal aberrations. Firewire is another solution if you have a card & a DAC that use it. sp/dif has always been the defacto standard. Many cards have a sp/dif RCA or optical output & some motherboards � with built-in sound � have sp/dif output pins that you can get a digital signal from.

Streaming is also another method to transfer digital signals to your audio system. This can be a solution using Apple�s very basic AirPort Express & their new Air Play or other software/hardware solutions like Bluetooth, Kleer, AirFoil etc. Streaming is huge & many manufactures are rushing to give you streaming capabilities. Bear in mind that streaming is only as good as the transmitter & the receiver & often the hardware is good for little but Mp3 quality. Convenient � yes. Compromised � probably.

So my solution? PC sp/dif out > outboard DAC > Powered Studio Monitors

Digging deeper & experimenting, my solution to 'bit perfect' playback is AlbumPlayer software with the ASIO output dll added. The ASIO output connects the soundcard hdwe directly to the outboard DAC - totally bypassing all latency normally added by the O/S. It bypasses the cutsey features like level matching, equalization, colorful displays which all bog the signal down. This requires some work & configuration but it does sound noticeably more detailed than any other stand-alone player. I have tried.

AlbumPlayer - Jukebox for Music Collector and Audiophile Trial version is free. Full version is $50.

ASIO4ALL - Universal ASIO Driver Free.

You must download & run the ASIO dll & then configure AlbumPlayer under Preferences>Audio & enable ASIO.

For CD ripping use Exact Audio Copy Free.

This gives you studio quality output from computer files. I still use wav files. Bigger is better & no compression - even lossless flac or Apple - is without some cost. Flac etc has to go through a decoding phase before it can be played. In a similar vein, a CD must also be decoded before the computer can play it. That is why a rip always sounds better than a CD . . .

Note: Using ASIO will disable all other sound from any other source - YouTube etc - while AlbumPlayer is active.

Fwiw . . . and this is based on my personal experimentation & ears.

Ian

[kaisen]

Thanks! Great to hear your opinion on audio...

[pavulon]

That was a fair bit of thought. Thanks for writing it down and sharing with (some...like me) folks that have no real clue about this stuff!

Pelican OT...making me think about stuff that wouldn't otherwise occur to me...almost everyday!!

[RWebb]

Thanks, Ian. I have just been thinking about how to get good music from PC to speakers... hooking my iPhone into my pre-amp with a mini-plug cable seems to result in lifeless sound quality (tho I have done an A_B test vs. my CD player yet).

Questions:

1. "a rip always sounds better than a CD" - you mean a ripped file on a PC vs. a CD played by that CD? or vs. a CD in a stand alone player?

2. confused re what you mean re lossless flac or Apple - are you saying that using the Apple Lossless format (like I do!) will cause sound quality degradation? In what way? (i.e what is the subjective perception?)

3. Let's suppose some guy has spent years ripping his CD collection into iTunes on a PC... thousands of them, taking up about 0.5 Tbyte of HDD space. Can AlbumPlayer read those files? Will it be better than iTunes? This - ah - guy will probably commit suicide before re-ripping all the CDs again, and many have been sold or traded away.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Thanks, Ian. I have just been thinking about how to get good music from PC to speakers... hooking my iPhone into my pre-amp with a mini-plug cable seems to result in lifeless sound quality (tho I have done an A_B test vs. my CD player yet).

Questions:

1. "a rip always sounds better than a CD" - you mean a ripped file on a PC vs. a CD played by that CD? or vs. a CD in a stand alone player?

2. confused re what you mean re lossless flac or Apple - are you saying that using the Apple Lossless format (like I do!) will cause sound quality degradation? In what way? (i.e what is the subjective perception?)

3. Let's suppose some guy has spent years ripping his CD collection into iTunes on a PC... thousands of them, taking up about 0.5 Tbyte of HDD space. Can AlbumPlayer read those files? Will it be better than iTunes? This - ah - guy will probably commit suicide before re-ripping all the CDs again, and many have been sold or traded away.

When you plug your iPhone in, you are relying on the DAC in the phone to do the D/A conversion. It, like the DAC in the iPod et al are cheap & dirty & your result is typical. I once heard an iPod that somebody tore apart & stuck in a better DAC. It wasn�t bad at all.

1. Yes. A wav file from a PC will sound better than the CD in the same computer. Similarly, a burned copy of a CD will sound better than the original. The theory I have heard: the bit craters on a manufactured CD are softer than a burned version or a properly ripped file (EAC or MAX). Soft craters can engage the error correction circuit which synthesizes rather than reproduces the exact bitstream. The burned version craters are sharper & it needs less correction since it was done it the pre-burning file creation stage. A properly ripped file will also already be �corrected�. That is why EAC takes 20 minutes + to rip a file versus a �standard� rip which takes a minute or two. It does a far better job scanning & filling it any missing bits.

2. You need a pretty high-definition system, but yes, there is a difference. This is a very subjective subject as you can imagine. Consumers want smaller files & the various vendors have thought up all sorts of algorithms to give it to them. They slice & dice & compress. And then it is reassembled via software just before it goes into the DAC. The tinkering they did + the reassembly degrades the song ever so slightly. Softer, less dynamic with a slight smearing of detail. Subtle but it is there. If you cut up the Mona Lisa into 1000 pieces & then glued it back together, would it ever be the same? The Apple crowd � in particular � have a hard time with this one but I�ll tell you a little story if you keep it to yourself. A hdwe/software vendor who uses our monitors had a visit from some Apple techs who had just finished a new lossless compression algorithm. They claimed it was seamless & could not be heard. The vendor threw it on their reference system & the lads from Apple went back to Cupertino with their tails between their legs. And they ordered our monitors the next week.

3. See # 1. Again, not a huge deal but it is there to hear in a refined system.

Ian

[Christien]

Or you can go hear it live and get better sound than any sound system could ever produce

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Christien

Or you can go hear it live and get better sound than any sound system could ever produce

True in theory, rarely true in real life. At least not at large venues.

[RWebb]

Thanks, Ian.

Suppose I use AlbumPlayer to play back the Apple Lossless files already on my PC -- will it sound better than using ITunes to play them back?

or can AlbumPlayer even read those files...?

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Christien

Or you can go hear it live and get better sound than any sound system could ever produce

Only if it is not amplified. As soon as the front of house guys do their thing . . . well, it becomes their thing & not the performers.

Ian

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Thanks, Ian.

Suppose I use AlbumPlayer to play back the Apple Lossless files already on my PC -- will it sound better than using ITunes to play them back?

or can AlbumPlayer even read those files...?

How did you save them? You might need a plugin. As for sound? Try it & let us know.

Ian

[RWebb]

they are saved as Apple Lossless files - .m4a is the file extension

[imcarthur]

m4a is the default iTunes download format. You can convert it to a wav in iTunes - not that there is any real advantage other than compatibility. Right Click > Create WAV Version.

I have 5 - 6 tracks in both m4a>wav & ripped from a CD wav. The difference? Slight congestion on the m4a>wav. For example: Natalie Merchant's The Peppery Man from Leave Your Sleep (a sonically excellent CD btw). When the massed voices of Hazmat Modine kick in, the singers are easier to individualize on the CD rip version. Certainly not a huge difference but audible in my setup & on a high definition system (I compared them on a dealer's system just last week in Florida).

File size:

m4a = 10 MB
m4a>wav = 55.9 MB
EAC ripped wav = 51.4 MB

Ian

[porsche4life]

I have been doing the streaming with Airport expresses for over a year now. I love it, and on my cheap speakers it sounds fine.

However, when I can afford a real sound system, it will have to be wired for sure.

[David]

I'm sure I'm not getting CD quality, but I've been very happy with Pandora in the garage. I paid the $36/yr subscription so I get 192 kbps music. The signal goes straight from my laptop 1/8" headphone outlet to the stereo receiver RCA inlet. I turn the laptop volume almost to zero and let the receiver do the work.

Even cranked up the sound is pretty clear, but I may try a better D/A conversion either with a desktop PC with good sound card or something external.


Ian, looking at your examples of DAC's, the Cambridge is by far the cheapest but at about $500 it's still a chunk of change for my little system. Is there another external option or would a PC sound card be the most economical?

[RWebb]

not sur if I have this right, but I tried to set up iTunes for the maximum sound quality (at the expense of slower ripping & more HDD storage used)

Here are the settings:






Is this the highest quality setting iTunes will allow?

And... are your comparisons above based on the highest quality settings iTunes allows?

I'm also curious re using Airport - it SHOULD not degrade the digital stream, but what happens after that?

[imcarthur]

David

A headphone output is an analogue signal that is amplified. The digital radio stream has gone through your laptop�s D/A convertor & has then been amplified (mildly) to drive a headphone (they are very efficient beasts). A laptop will typically not have a true digital output � except some Macs which have Firewire. So no, an outboard DAC would be useless. I sell Cambridge Audio & I used their DacMagic extensively in my system. A little soft overall � not a bad thing necessarily � but better than most DACs under $1K � although I have not heard the latest crop of Asynchronous DACs that are starting to hit the market. But in your case, a better soundcard � or a soundcard plus an external DAC � would be the upgrade path. The cost would probably not be worth the benefit for a streaming service at this time.

Randy

Yes, that is the highest resolution that you can download or convert via iTunes. I have heard rumblings that they will upgrade iTunes to 24/96 or 24/192 output at some point but I have not heard a timeframe.

Ian

[imcarthur]

Some good news:

"Apple Pushes Labels To Improve Sound Quality of Music Downloads

The sound quality of music downloads may improve, with digital retailers such as iTunes in talks with record labels over the issue, according to CNN.

Master recordings straight from the studio are typically in a 24-bit format. But, they�re usually compressed down to 16-bit when distributed digitally or pressed onto CDs.

However, Apple, among others, already supports the 24-bit format with both iTunes and its Mac computers, as does HP and their Beats Audio hardware. Interscope head honcho Jimmy Iovine, who along with Dr. Dre is behind Beats Audio, is leading the high-fidelity charge amongst the labels, advocating for them to maintain the quality of master recordings."

Source: Complex

The current artists offerings of 24/96 material or the even rarer 24/192 are pitiful. More would be a really good thing.

Ian

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

The current artists offerings of 24/96 material or the even rarer 24/192 are pitiful. More would be a really good thing.

+1

Here are a few decent sources for hi-res audio downloads to peruse:

https://www.hdtracks.com/
Linn Records - The best recordings in Studio Master Download, Vinyl and SACD
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/
naimlabel.com
iTrax
Boston Symphony Orchestra
Welcome to Chesky Records: The Premiere Audiophile Record Label
Reference Recordings Complete Audiophile Classical, Music Orchestra and Jazz HDCD Catalog
List of Genres | Naxos Music Library
Fidelio Audio
Welcome at ACOUSENCE records
High Definition Tape Transfers Online Store
ClassicsOnline - Your Classical Music Download Source
Deutsche Grammophon
Gimell Records - The Tallis Scholars on DVD, CD and Download
Masters From Their Day | Home
Hifitrack.com
High resolution audio downloads, audiophile audio downloads, hd tracks
Unipheye Music
WAONXA-001 Detail
Download & Streaming : Audio Archive : Internet Archive
www.firstimpressionmusic.com
Blue Coast Records - Blue Coast Records
24bit/96kHz���i���z�M�b���y�_�E�����[�h�E���y�z�M���������Łye-onkyo music�z
musikkonline - 2L
Design w Sound 2011 � AJP3-
Pristine Classical - The Greatest Recordings - The Finest Sound - Home Page

Audiophile Downloads | Computer Audiophile

[imcarthur]

Eric

Thanks for the list, but . . . going through it highlights my point. It is all jazz, old recordings, obscure artists, obscure material, or just a rehash of the older audiophile recordings previously released on LP. How about a 24/96 of the last Sade? Or the Lady GaGa release? Technologically, every new release could be also be released in high rez - with file size being the only negative.

Ian

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Eric

Thanks for the list, but . . . going through it highlights my point. It is all jazz, old recordings, obscure artists, obscure material, or just a rehash of the older audiophile recordings previously released on LP. How about a 24/96 of the last Sade? Or the Lady GaGa release? Technologically, every new release could be also be released in high rez - with file size being the only negative.

Ian

Hey, you are preaching to the choir. Just thought I'd post a bunch of links with high-res source material for reference.

While there are obvious benefits to greater bit-depth/resolution (more bandwidth/headroom, lower noise floor, etc.), I think sample rates of 192khz (and beyond) are a bit silly. Recording at 96k or even 88.2k should suffice, even for those with golden ears. At 88.2k, you will capture all data up to 44.1khz (ala Nyquist theory). That is 24 THOUSAND cycles higher than the upper frequency threshold for most folks!

Oh, and since you asked, here is a 24/192 vintl rip of the latest Sade LP:

Sade - Soldier Of Love (2010) 24bit/192KHz Vinyl Rip | AvaxHome