My initial post isn't really about any of the above, although there are few things you can put in a child's hand more deadly than a gun. Accidental stabbings don't count for many deaths.

My point was that if you market a gun to kids, you are creating a product to be owned by the child. This is the problem. I don't think 4-7 year olds should think of a gun as theirs.

I think young children need to be taught the function of a gun and to have some respect for it -- okay, a lot of respect for it. I don't think guns should be made to be like toys, and I don't think they should be treated as toys. And part of the problem with "My first gun" is that the manufacturer is doing those things -- making it small, giving it a pink stock; following the Mattel/Barbie marketing path.

I don't think the product should exist at all -- any more than Chevrolet should market "my first Suburban" to 4-10 year olds.

My kids only have plastic toy water guns and if they or my husband decided they need a real one I will fight him tooth and nail on it.

No, companies should not be marketing real weapons as toys to kids but, at the end of the day the parents make the decisions on what is purchased and brought into the house. It doesn't take a genius to realize anything that shoots a bullet is to be closely supervised when kids are involved, despite what color the plastic is.

The marketing is designed around a:

1) Smaller than normal firearm
2) Designed/Sized for children
3) Bolt action
4) Single shot - no magazine
5) low recoil
6) low power

This is not a firearm designed with an adult or teenager in mind. It is designed for sized for 4-10. Mature has nothing to do with the design.

A 5 year old should not have access to ANY firearm except with adult supervision. At what age can someone be trusted with a firearm like this? It will depend on the person. 14 year old with no sense/training shouldn't have access. An 9 year old that has been trained from age 5 probably does have the maturity to use it on their own.

I blame the parent since not only was the firearm accessible, so was the ammunition! It is sad that a 2 yr old died!

I think all 5 yr olds should be allowed to drive, drink, shoot and engage in explicit sexual discussions (with adult supervision of course).:rolleyes:

I understand where TechW is going with this. Just because a Capitalist company can doesn't mean it should.

At some point there should be a moral responsibility to our society.

Thank you for reading what I actually said instead of imagining it.

Crickett has shut off their social media presence and their website appears broken. Frankly, I wouldn't shed a tear if they shut their doors. They can regroup and make "My first crack pipe" next.

Well, there it is.

At some point there should be a moral responsibility to our society.

Yes, that comes with the parents, some parents teach their kids to ride and race motorcycles at 5, some teach them to drive go carts, it should be up to the parents to teach the kid safety if they want them to shoot.
the government wants to teach your kids about sex, birth control, abortion, at a very early age, you have no choice in that, but it should be up to the parents.
The government says the more the children know about sex and how to handle it the safer they are. So why not guns.

I agree with all of that and I don't buy that any activity is ok just because a kid is being supervised by an adult.

All I'm saying is my responsibility a parent superceeds that of society. In this case society failed but, my kid still doesn't have a gun because I didn't take soceity's word for it.

Any indsutry will do anything if it make them a buck and kids are gullible... and that's why kids don't have credit cards.

then again..
a School in Texas decided not to let the NRA give gun safety classes...
this is purely a move against the NRA..
the school has no interest in the safety of those kids..


Rika

I do that sometimes....;)

What I don't understand is the current climate being such that if an individual happens to disagree with one iota related to the 2nd, no matter how obscure, they are automatically branded as anti gun.:rolleyes:

I get that crap all the time because I have essentially the same feelings about 30 + cap magazines for handguns...

Doesn't matter if they were raised around hunting all their life, were sitting a deer stand on their own by 14, owned several guns, etc.....Such as myself.;)

Personally, I think 6 years old is too young to be placing a weapon in the hands of a child. I don't care if it is pink or blue, low recoil or not, it is a weapon.

My dad who along with a myriad of Hunting/Sport shooting uncles in Cent. Ill would likely agree. I think I was 10 before I was allowed to hold and shoot a .22 under supervision.

I'm sorry....anyone who thinks TechW is blaming the Company for the death of the child and not the parent is not rationalizing his posts properly.

Dean, keep your Government rantings in Parf where they can be summarily ignored.

This is not an issue of Government.

If adults are responsible for their own actions then why are you railing against the manufacturer and their marketing of a perfectly legal product? The parents are responsible not only for the decision to make the purchase but also for the safe handling of the weapon after the fact. You can't have it both ways...

People, the CHILD didn't buy the firearm! An adult had to buy it.

As far as the crack pipes and non-safe sex, your Reductio ad absurdum is idiotic!

I'm reading back through all of them and I can't find a consistant collective thought, -it's the "gun nuts" fault, it's the parents', it's worse when a manufacturer is marketing to them-

Yes, tragedies suck, use common sense with weapons, everyone.

So, help me understand a little better... Would you say that a 5 y/o wielding a rifle at the gun range with their parent is OK? If so, why is it such a problem for you to envision a company that would market that rifle to the child? And since that is virtually the only reasonable scenario where the child should be in the company of the rifle, where is your problem?

A 5 year old supervised at a gun range is absolutely fine, and it's probably a good thing.

IMO the child should have a parent's gun and recognize it as the parent's gun and under the control of the parent. That shooting it -- or even touching it -- is a privilege reserved for the child when he/she is pronounced "ready" by the parent.

All access to the gun by the child should be 100% controlled.

A child should not be expected to understand that the gun he/she owns is different than any other thing he/she owns. A downsized pink gun marketed as a child's gun is going to appear to be a toy to many children, and especially other children who may be visiting that child. That's where this company crosses the line, IMO.

I hope that's clear?

Bingo. Ahhhh, but liberals know what's best. They have powers of reasoning others aren't blessed with. Therefore, we should simply obey.

I would say no..
he's sure to be playing video games were..
like those targets..
you can put them back up // or reload game..
and start over..
Sis didn't get back up..
I'm sure he's wondering why..

Rika

Wow. Talk about trying to pitch an idea to the wrong crowd. What did you expect, Tech? :D

One guy mentions what he finds at least somewhat problematic on the topic of guns and gets run over completely.

Hehe I am the durn for´ner so I get a free card to agree with Tech. You can´t touch me from over here. :D

As far as the incident, it is just beyond tragic. The human race at its finest.

Rant over. As you were. SmileWavy

In the past our society deemed some actions by good capitalist companies as innapropriate even though they were within the law. Society reacted.

I see no difference in marketing real weapons to children than say cigarettes or a good Single Malt.

Exactly what happened.

:-)

You and Dean! You can always go to Parf and discuss pool cues.

No, it is wrong. An Adult size rifle will not fit a childs body properly. When we were trained in the Boy Scouts, we used, basically, THAT rifle. We were adult supervised and allowed to fire rifles at a rifle range, I think starting at age 8 (Cub Scouts).

That model of rifle has been around for close to 100 years. The difference is that this is now National News, because of an anti-gun agenda.

Pssshah! Any four year old can make the distinction.

Alcohol and Cigarette are NOT the same as firearms. Reductio ad absurdum again.

The color of the rifle is not the issue. The child should never have possesion of it without hand's-on adult supervision. The child should be educated on gun safety and the fact that the rifle isnt a toy, this should be done every single time it comes out of the safe. This is an issue of negligent parenting. Would be the same thing is the mother plugged in an electric knife, handed it to the kid and then went outside. The mother is at fault, plain and simple. Blame the mother and her poor decision not the rifle.

So, what you're saying is that it is the parents' responsibility to ensure safe handling: Education and controlled access. I agree with you 100%.

But now you go on to say:

If the parent(s) ensures safe handling as you and I both agreed above (education and controlled access) then this is a non-issue.

If the parent is responsible then it doesn't matter what color, shape, or size the gun is. Do you see the point?

Oh, lord. Pink plastic (real) rifles that look like toys have been around for 100 years? That is just a bizarre comment.

Sorry, folks, I reserve the right to think the company is doing the wrong thing by marketing a .22 that's designed to look like a toy, and I haven't seen an ounce of logical discussion that persuades otherwise.

So you have a problem with the appearance of the gun?


Isn't the point of taking the child to the range to TEACH that child about the weapon? Wouldn't it make MORE SENSE to use a gun that looks like a toy, BUT ISN'T? If it isn't a toy, and is controlled by the parents, it shouldn't matter that other kids may see it.

Clearly, your argument is based purely on emotion, absent of any real logic.

How many ways do I have to say it: its design is toy-like.

Sure they are... All three illegal for children to own. Many people feel a little alcohol for children under the age of 18 is not a terrible thing. Quite common in many foreign countries.

It is legal in some states for persons under the age of 18 to smoke, however they cannot legally purchase the cigarettes.

It was found to be socially unnaceptable for companies to market those types of products either to children or at times when children were most likely to be exposed. Laws were generated to limit the capitalist companies who were making conscious decisions to try and influence their future market share.

They were only acting within the law after all.

You're late to the party, mister.

Matter of Chwick v Mulvey (2010 NY Slip Op 09911)

Do you suppose the child retains the toy-like image of the gun after a visit to the range? Or would you say the child might learn otherwise?

I don't even disagree with you there but, they do make it(as well as tons of other fake/real/toy/weapons) and that's where that whole parental accountability kicks in. It's a shame both parties failed here.

Not in my world. You don't impress the dangers upon a 5 yr old by downplaying the situation...

What taught me respect for a firearm as a yoot, was it's size and deadly potential.

I agree....

Well, agree to disagree. I think it's a teachable moment that can be used by a responsible parent to instill a sense of respect for any gun, whether it looks like a toy or not.

depends on the kid / I would say probably yes..
he will know it goes boom and makes a spot on the paper..
& Daddy is proud..
like I stated...
he didn't think his sister would be hurt..
she was supposed to get up..
it's just a little hole..

Rika

Failed at what? Passing meaningless legislation to make the uninformed electorate THINK they did something?

True enough in this case. The difference lies in the quality of parenting.