Ferrari 355 owners?

[HardDrive]

Anyone here a 355 owner? I'm a bit shocked at how low the prices have gotten.

I've got two specific questions: How much does the 'engine out' cam belt replacement typically cost, and is the other method (a partial drop) a safe alternative? The Ferrari community seems split on this issue.

[kaisen]

$2000-3000 at indy garage
$5000-6000 at Ferrari dealer

It's easy to drop the whole assembly, so I'm not sure why anyone would do a partial drop.

[Joe Bob]

355-94 to 99 IIRC. Old enough that unless you do your own work you need a specialized wrench as no dealer will touch them.

Wrenches of this genre are a squirrely sort, they tend to tell owners my way or the hiway. Partial drops are more a PITA than full drops.

If you are a DIY guy and your labor is cheap...the partial. If Guido is doing it, the full Monty will likely be your only choice as he will likely decline the job.

'Safe' alternative? Well if it grenades.....the wrench blames it on the deferred maintenance from the PO. Ferraris can be like a 928. Over engineered rides that have owners going 'how fuchin' much for an oil change', etc, etc....and then the new owner gets a deal becuase they are dumping it......factor in aging electronics and bend over part prices.

Just my $.02.

[kaisen]

Although......

If ALL you were doing were the timing belts, leaving everything in the car is probably fine

But normally it is part of a major service (25-35 hours) that includes a LOT more than the belts, and some of those ops are much easier with the engine/transaxle sitting on the cart

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by kaisen

$2000-3000 at indy garage
$5000-6000 at Ferrari dealer

It's easy to drop the whole assembly, so I'm not sure why anyone would do a partial drop.

Ferrari had the job listed as 22 hours. It can (supposedly) be done in half the time with a partial drop.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Ferrari had the job listed as 22 hours. It can (supposedly) be done in half the time with a partial drop.

That's JUST the belts

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Ferrari had the job listed as 22 hours. It can (supposedly) be done in half the time with a partial drop.

My boy Jonathan does em on a regular basis..



Might be able to get you a good deal on this one..

[biosurfer1]

sheesh...show that to the guys on the Tacoma board who balk at $1000 for a timing belt/WP change.

I wish I was wealthy enough to "own" a Ferrari, not just buy one

[MarkRobinson]

Be careful on your purchase: my best friend has one, here's what he's been through:

Car he selected tested poor on leakdown: needed full 18k valve job (Pd. by seller) as OE valve guides are too soft: this issue manifested into the early 360's as well.

3 years later, burned a valve, needed full valve job: cause: hole in exhaust manifold (very thin walled steel, mfrgd by Ansa). End result: full engine rebuild due to evidence of poor valve job before.

New clutch: weights "swing" around the flywheel to help balance: the have to be lubricated to remove vibrations.

Exhaust manifolds: go Tubi, or search as there are others.

There's a guy who makes gold-plated terminals to replace the terminals in the entire wiring harness: recommended: Ferrari engineered the factory terminals to be removed up to 6 times before continuity issues develop: the gold plated removes most all this: common on most older Ferrari's including the F40. This helps eliminate start up issues as well.

[MotoSook]

Ignoring parts cost, why is owning a f-car different from owning a p-car if you are a Diy'er like most guys on this board?

[kaisen]

I'm not sure that the Ferrari community is really all that split on the issue of engine in or out.

If you're only replacing the belts as a preventative maintenance (i.e. not an issue) then popping in fresh belts is a straightforward affair. 355's left the factory with four timing marks. If the four timing marks all line up, install the belt and it should be timed correctly. This is the same for most all cars, the fact that it's an 'exotic' doesn't change basic mechanics and a timing belt is just that.

At that point it's more an issue of access. It is usually a fast procedure to drop the subframe. But things can and will go wrong, so there's plenty of padding in that estimated labor op. A good tech in a good shop can do it FASTER dropping the subframe versus the limited access with it in. But there's more to check and double check, and more opportunity for things to go wrong as they're touching more systems, so they charge more. Get it? It might be faster, but they're going to charge you more.

The other benefit of dropping the cradle is the 'while you're in there' items that pop up. For example, if after removing things a cam seal is weeping, it would be much easier/faster to replace it with the motor out. Ditto for valve cover gaskets, plugs, crank seal, etc. So they'd rather have it out.

[HardDrive]

Thank you for your responses. They have served well to cure me of my yearly yearning to own an F car.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Thank you for your responses. They have served well to cure me of my yearly yearning to own an F car.

Major services are due every 30,000 miles, which is typically every 4-5 years. If it's $3000 every 4-5 years on a car that really isn't depreciating, that's ~$750 a year. BFD.

If $750 a year dissuades you from owning a car, please don't buy ANY new car as the depreciation alone makes that number look like chump change

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Major services are due every 30,000 miles, which is typically every 4-5 years. If it's $3000 every 4-5 years on a car that really isn't depreciating, that's ~$750 a year. BFD.

If $750 a year dissuades you from owning a car, please don't buy ANY new car as the depreciation alone makes that number look like chump change

If only life worked out like it does on paper. And the "while you're in there" guarantees that you won't get off for 3K every 5 years.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Zeke

If only life worked out like it does on paper. And the "while you're in there" guarantees that you won't get off for 3K every 5 years.

I agree. The 355 is a problematic car, and it's becoming an old problematic car. Weak valve guides and weak headers are just the start, both are very expensive to replace.

They are older cars now, and if handed into a shop for a major service, including belts and basic seals (cam seals, etc.) I would be ready for $6K. Might be a little less, but chances are more likely will be more.

On the later 360, shops do belts etc. without dropping the engine, but 90% (or more) of shops are going to drop the engine on a 355.

The problem with changing just the belts is the cam seals, which start leaking. If the car is on 5 year old cam seals already, and you change just the belts, and the seals start leaking a year later, you have to "start over" because you need to remove the belts to take off the cams to replace the seals.

The bottom line is this: 355s are probably the most expensive of the V8s to own and operate.

If you are interested in a V8 Ferrari, I'd either go backwards to the 328, or forward to the 360.

[McLovin]

I really don't much like the timing belt system, or the cam/valve cover sealing system on these cars.

The valve covers and cam ends are sealed by a bunch of finicky seals, that need to be pieced together, a little blob of sealant here (not too little! not too much!), no sealant there, etc.

Even the best shops don't always get it right.

And if it does leak, the engine has to come out again, cams off, belts off, etc. A ton of work.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Zeke

If only life worked out like it does on paper. And the "while you're in there" guarantees that you won't get off for 3K every 5 years.

Look, Ferrari owners are from three camps:

1) I know nothing about cars but have a lot of money and Ferrari is the best
These guys will simply bring their cars to Ferrari, open their checkbooks, and do whatever they're told

2) I love cars, love Ferraris, love driving, but can't turn a wrench
These guys will research everything to death and have things done "the right way" because others have warned them of the perils of deviating from the bible

3) I love cars, Ferraris are just cars, and I can either turn a wrench or understand enough about mechanics to "know better"
These guys drive their cars, maintain them well.... but don't buy in to the overkill

If you fall in camp one or two, you'd better be prepared to PAY because others will tell you it's necessary if you love your car. It's Generally Accepted Extortion

If you can see yourself in camp three, and understand they are just cars (like 911s or Silverados) you will drive and enjoy your car and make good decisions on how to keep your car in good mechanical shape.

Example: your car just had a "major" service done four years ago when the car had 31K miles. It now has 38K miles (that's typical for non-DD Ferraris). Would you replace the spark plugs again if it was running fine and pulling a plug showed no signs of wear or funny discoloration? If the clutch inspected fine at 31K, would you replace it at 38K 'just because'? Would you replace the valve cover gaskets 'just because'? How about the cam seals? Crank seal?

Most people who know better will do what's needed, but not buy into the fear of what-ifs. Ferraris are robust cars when driven regularly. Just like Ducatis. Just like Porsches.

They're not made from unicorn tusk or unobtainium. They're cars.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I agree. The 355 is a problematic car, and it's becoming an old problematic car.

The bottom line is this: 355s are probably the most expensive of the V8s to own and operate.

If you are interested in a V8 Ferrari, I'd either go backwards to the 328, or forward to the 360.

Good advice. But that's also why 355s are great bang for the buck. Pick your poison. I'd buy a 430 with timing chains and significantly better performance, if you can swing it. They're getting cheaper too.

$6K for any "everything" service is Ferrari dealer retarded pricing.... Indys charge less, half of that in some cases.

[Jrboulder]

What does a 355 go for?

[jwasbury]

This helps me get the thought of F-Car ownership out of my head - F355 too:

Yes its just a car and you can DIY, but daaayumm parts are spendy

So You Want Buy a Used Ferrari, do You? F355 Owner Spent $47,845 to Repair the Engine! - Carscoop