$5 Pinot Noir vs $65 Pinot Noir

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by rwebb

high scores from parker tell me which wines to avoid

wine 101 tip: Just look at the back label - if it says kermit lynch on it, buy it

+10^100

[Cajundaddy]

"Drink what you love and love what you drink." Exactly!

I have enjoyed a $5 bottle and a $150 bottle. Was there a difference? Yes.

My favorite table wines range in the $15 and many are Californian, some from the Rhone valley in France. So many wine varieties... so little time. I was sipping a Bogle Pino Noir this evening at around $8. Was it the best wine I ever tasted? No, but it greatly enhanced the flavor of my tri-tip, baked potato, and fresh grilled zucchini. Very friendly.

[motion]

I have had the Bogles many times and agree.... great bottle for $8. I also am enjoying the red blends... Little Black Dress... Apothic, Cellar #8, etc. I buy a great Aussie Merlot in Montana at the local IGA for $7 called Banrock Station. Nice and peppery. So much wine, so little time!

[jim72911t]

Originally Posted by motion

On a side note, has anyone seen the southward proliferation of grapes in California? Holy hell, there sure is a lot of production these days, even compared to 10 years ago. I gotta think that means some really good, low-cost wines are easy to find.

Absolutely. My parents just retired to Templeton (Paso Robles) from Huntington Beach a year ago. They started heading up there for wine trips 20 years ago, and from what they tell me there wasn't much in the way of wineries back then. Today, there are hundreds, and the area is booming.

I really enjoy visiting. There are some surprisingly good, small wineries, great food, and the whole vibe is so much more laid back than Napa/Sonoma. Plus, there are some great sports car roads in the area.

[LWJ]

Here is Oregon, we have Pinot coming out of our ears. To my taste, cheap Pinots are thin. I avoid them in my price point and drink Syrahs, Zins, and Cabs (generally).

I told my buddy that I didn't like Pinots and he poured me about ten (yes, he worked at a wine bar) that I loved. Turns out the cheapo Pinots aren't for me. If you go up the price point? I start to like them plenty.

Bottom line? I still don't drink Pinot unless someone else is buying!

Larry

[livi]

Last month I visited my uncles winery in Provence in southern France. Unsurprisingly, I sampled all I could. Repeatedly. And I came to the conclusion that according to my taste buds the wine they put in boxes and even the wine from the pumps is just as good as the dearer ones on bottles. He has a shop that was a attended by a young French lady (mmm...) who also was very knowledgeable on wine and she let me in on an old secrete. (no not that..), namely that the box wine nowadays generally is of equal quality as the bottles.

I also visited Monte Carlo as it was The Monaco Classic Week with races with 100 years old large sail boats. My uncles boat was referee boat at the start line and I had lunch there with a bunch of French referees and watched a race. Excellent fun, with the land line of sunny Monte Carlo in the background.

Also went down to Cannes, Antibes and Juan le Pines. Beautiful.

[Bill Douglas]

Slick move Motion.

Originally Posted by Christien

and New Zealand)

I dunno, I only drink the stuff. Actually... We have very strong consumer/fair trading act laws so I don't think that happens around here.

Right now (6:30pm here) I'm drinking a NZ pinot noir that costs NZD$9.98 and it's good. Not excellent, but good. Their (Tiwaiwaka) best one with the black label is about $50 so I thought I'd risk 10 bucks on their cheap one. Being "good" I'll go back to the supermarket tomorrow and buy a couple of cases.

[Christien]

I could very well be wrong - it's just what I was told by a sommelier at a restaurant recently. He wasn't implying that it was a dishonest practice, just that they were produced and sold as blends, and finding pure pinots from these regions was very difficult.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by livi

Last month I visited my uncles winery in Provence in southern France. Unsurprisingly, I sampled all I could. Repeatedly. And I came to the conclusion that according to my taste buds the wine they put in boxes and even the wine from the pumps is just as good as the dearer ones on bottles. He has a shop that was a attended by a young French lady (mmm...) who also was very knowledgeable on wine and she let me in on an old secrete. (no not that..), namely that the box wine nowadays generally is of equal quality as the bottles.

I also visited Monte Carlo as it was The Monaco Classic Week with races with 100 years old large sail boats. My uncles boat was referee boat at the start line and I had lunch there with a bunch of French referees and watched a race. Excellent fun, with the land line of sunny Monte Carlo in the background.

Also went down to Cannes, Antibes and Juan le Pines. Beautiful.

[jealous] I think I hate you, Markus [/jealous]

[KevinTodd]

So many good and honest answers here!

Always drink what you like and never let anyone else tell you any different. If you're in the mood to learn, then take a class at a local wine shop or restaurant--it will be fun and you will learn alot.

Pinot Noir for me is one thing primarily--Burgundy. They're bright, lean and austere to the point of almost being linear. I love them.

If I'm craving a domestic PN I stick to Oregon as their soils and climate almost replicate Burgundy--this is why PN and Pinot Gris are grown there more than any other varietals. I also like the flavor profiles of Russian River and Carneros PN from Cali--although the level of ripeness is always a bit higher than it should be.

PN is a tricky little devil to grow and vinify but I think that's why so many winemakers love it--because it presents such a challenge to make a truly great wine from.

Price is many things here---but it is usually due to area of production and then overall yield. If a vineyard manager has high-density plantings and is growing commodity-level grapes at 10+ tons per acre then the resulting bottle is less expensive. Conversely if a vineyard manager has low-density plantings and is utilizing plant management techniques such as green harvest then his yield would be more at the boutique level, or around 3 tons per acre. This makes the resulting wine more expensive because there is simply less of it.

You have to realize that low-yield vines yield more concentrated fruit as well and this is highly regarded by the winemaker.

Again--drink what you like at the price you can afford. That's whats good for the wine business overall!

Cheers!

[Shuie]

We are lucky enough to have several New Zealand Pinot Noirs available on the shelves here in the $10-$20 range that are consistently really good, IMO. If there is a better wine out there for $11/750ml I really do not need to know about it.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Christien

NONE of the Niagaras?

The ones that I have tried show promise but like other non-French regions, they just don't have the body or complexity. As the vines age, this could change. And as Randy pointed out, bottle age is another factor. Every Burgundy that I have tracked - same wine sampled at different stages of its life - kept improving up to 10+ years. I have never tried a Niagara or OR, CA or WA PN that has been older than 5-6 years.

Ian

[tabs]

I had the occasion to go to a Cigar Smoker out at Don Gallieano's Winery and got to know that his favorite wine was his own 1 Gallon jug with a screw cap wine. Mind you this is a guy who can drink any wine he likes. His forte are his Sherrys and Ports which are award winning products, his main business is brokering grapes to other winerys in CA.

The lesson learned here is that you don't need to pay a high price for a bottle of good wine. That little sojurn was an eye opener with regards to wine.

[creaturecat]

The 5 dollar bottle............. last seen in Canada in 1986.


sherry and port - that is where the real value lies. not that i drink it(or anything else, besides water) often.

[tadink]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

From my experience Pinot Noir and Pinot Grigio/Gris are pretty hard to screw up, no sense in spending the extra skrilla.

If I remember correctly the grapes are among the most hardy as well so there is rarely a shortage causing "legit" price hikes year over year. I would imagine it's almost entirely hype/marketing.

HI - vintner from Napa here, we grow cabernet on Atlas Peak, and I think you may be referring to Cab which is generally pretty bullet proof, thick skins, resistant to mildew.

Pinot is the virtual opposite to that - the skins are thin, the clusters are very tight, and it is VERY prone to mildew and mold since the air cannot circulate between the grapes.

A Cab producer generally does not worry too much about a rainstorm or two, a Pinot guy will be having cardiac arrest if it even gets dewey outside. They generally refer to Pinot as the 'heartbreak grape' since it is so finicky. But when its right, and the winemaker is good, there is not very much better! (well, a good caberent is better, but that is a different discussion!).

td

[livi]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

[jealous] I think I hate you, Markus [/jealous]

He he, love you too, Jim!

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Christien

I could very well be wrong - it's just what I was told by a sommelier at a restaurant recently. He wasn't implying that it was a dishonest practice, just that they were produced and sold as blends, and finding pure pinots from these regions was very difficult.

tell that place they need a new sommelier

it is true that the French used to fortify their "weak" Burgundy wines with Syrah and other grapes, but they stopped that practice - IIRC, they stopped in the 1700's

and a big yes on the rain & pinot noir grapes - 2013 is not looking too good as an Oregon Pinot vintage - actually, a simple tip: usually the best years for OPN have been even numbered years, esp. 2004, 2008

[scottmandue]

Motion, We were at TJ's the other day, picked up a bottle of Rabbit Ridge bended red "rhone style".

Nice pepper and berry, under $10

[creaturecat]

Turns out that, according to Decanter, the best pinot noir in the world, under 25 bucks, is from British Columbia.
Mission Hill.

[creaturecat]

"More than 14,000 wines from 61 regions around the world were entered in the competition in 2013. Mission Hill 2011 Martin's Lane Pinot Noir won a coveted International Trophy - the competition's top award, the first time a single wine variety (red or white) from any region in the world has won both a Regional Trophy for 'Best Wine' and an International Trophy for 'World's Best Wine' at the Decanter Awards."