question for CWP holders
 

i have had my CWP for a while now and when i see or hear about violent situations, the reality of what i would do if it was me is a lot more real. so here is the question:

you all have seen the motorcycle incedent with the guy banging his helment on the window of the driver door. at that poiint, would you take action with your fire arm and what would it be?

Am I inside the vehicle or outside?

Inside: I do nothing until the guy is inside the car and both able and acting to hurt me or mine. He can beat my car all he wants, that is not imminent threat of serious bodily harm to me. When he crosses the line, shoot chest.

Outside: I do nothing (besides calling 911).

No permit - I work at a college, and the state exempted themselves from the "you can't stop an employee from keeping it in his car" law, so if I had one I'd never be able to actually carry.

That said, if I were in that situation, the SUV or MiniVan I'd be driving is a much better weapon - get on a cell phone, call cops, don't slow down below 20 or so.... give them bikes plenty of "get out of the way" time, but if they want to force the issue a motorcycle has *never* won a pissing match against a SUV/Mommobile

If hand held weapons appeared - hammer, helmets off the head, etc - and/or I were forced to stop and not able to move forward due to other 4 wheel vehicles then I'd draw and prepare to fire.

If I were inside the car, I would pull the weapon out make sure he saw it and tell him to back off or I will shoot. If he continues to try and enter the vehicle, shoot him in the chest.

As the old saying goes, I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

In AZ if someone is trying to forcibly enter an occupied car, it's called carjacking and you can legally kill them. If I saw it happen to someone else, I'd be a good witness. I'm not risking financial ruin or a prison sentence to help an unarmed stranger. Besides, unless you were involved in the incident from the beginnng, it'd be pretty hard to know who the victim is and who the aggressor is. Let the cops figure it out.

I agree with jyl. If you're in a car you have the advantage already. To those that mentioned brandishing their firearm as a threat, remember that you can be prosecuted for threatening the use of deadly force. Don't draw your weapon until you are prepared to use it.

If deadly force is legally justified, threatening it is as well. It's called defensive display here.

Yup, and it's a recommended act if the situation allows.
However, things often happen very quickly and it's not required.

True, but if charged you will have to justify your action. Someone beating on the exterior of your car is definitely in the gray area of "life threatening".

As soon as my window gets taken out, so does the guy doing it. He has crossed into my vehicles interior and he was using a helmet to do the job. That helmet is a weapon.
Thing is they would have to get me to stop first, and like others have said, if I get boxed in, like what happened to the RR, the reverse lights are enough of an indicator of my intentions.

I see your point and it would be argued.

Let me ask you this... use the scenario of the SUV/bikers and the guy is using his helmet to bash the driver's window, in your opinion would the driver be justified using defensive display?

I would say absolutely justified.

Now consider this sceneario completely different that the SUV/bikers. Just a guy in sitting in traffic...
SUV is stopped in traffic and a pedestrian jaywalks between the vehicles to cross the road. Pedestrian is in front of the SUV and makes eye contact with driver. Pedestrian takes the look the wrong way and slaps the hood.

I would say not justified at that point.

Lets say the driver then hits the horn and yells "Knock it off and move on!"

But then the pedestrian goes to the drivers door and yanks on the handle while slapping the window. Now the driver would be justified in defensive display, imho.

do any of you ever imagine yourself in that situation and the reality of taking a life?
i have a lot more respect for police since they are more likely to be put in that situation.
they say there was an undercover off duty cop there that did nothing. i wonder what it would have taken for him to act.
you have to wonder if you shot him, how many in that group might have a gun. then what?

its hard for me to carry as i can not even have a gun in my car at work.

That is a question that people need to ask before they make the final decision of carrying a gun. It is a sobering reality of responsibility.
I am calmer and more in control when I have a gun, something in my brain "clicks" and the realization of the potential is profound.
When I am unarmed I am much more likely to go off on someone.

Yup.

With my wife and kid in the car, it would be hard to show restraint. I never, ever cause confrontations, but I do NOT like people threatening me. You threaten the safety of my wife and my daughter? Sorry a-hole. The last thing your going to see is a pissed off papa bear and muzzle flash.

If there was a real threat, legal consequences be damned. Thats what defense lawyers are for.

this is what i thought.
gun pointed at him, "if you continue, i will shoot".
once the glass is gone, he is too. i still think it would be very hard to pull the trigger, even then. it will be life changing for many.

I didn't see the video, I recall it being posted here but didn't watch. If someone forced their way into my car then any show of restraint would be over. As Rick said, at that point it is carjacking and I have the right to defend myself by any means necessary.

Keep in mind the law in NYC is different from the rest of the state. If he had a pistol and pulled w/o appropriate 5 borough permit he would be screwed.

Outside of the boroughs he still needs a permit for pistol which also serves as CCW in New York.

Very difficult to get permit for the city, you need to show cause.

You mean the threat of simply being out in public with a bunch of animals like the bikers is not enough cause?

I really don't understand why the NRA hasn't sued the city over that law??

You'd think so. It's NYC, unfortunately different rules. Doesn't Make sense to me either.

Think Reginald Denny. If he'd shot Damien "football" Williams, when Williams pulled him out of his truck during the Rodney King/LA Riots, he, Denny, would probably have been pulled out of his truck and hit in the head with a cinder block. Oh, wait, nevermind.

No, the state would have to prove its charges. Dead stranger having bashed in my window with helmet with his hair and prints all over it? Any grand jury would no bill that one.

Wow, so many stories. It must suck living in Afghanistan. :P

Not related to the NYC Range Rover incident.

But someone I know :rolleyes: has twice pulled a gun in extremely violent situations when the (certain person involved) thought they were going to get a near death beating. The other group of persons stopped dead in their tracks walked slowly backwards then ran. This is what guns are good for; stopping a situation getting out of control, not looking for a kill.

I don't know anyone (except some real cops) that have ever needed to pull a gun. All the post in this thread are just hypothetical.

Yes they are all hypothetical. But I carry daily and keep a wheel gun in the center console of my truck.
I like to be prepared for any hypothetical attack that may come to me and/or my family.
I truly hope I NEVER find myself in a situation where I HAVE to draw my weapon. But I am mentally prepared for that and will do about anything to protect my family.

I watched this video over and over, and quite frankly it terrified me.

I made sure my wife and teenage sons watched this and we talked about how to handle a situation like that. I am the only one in the family that can carry, but a car can certainly be an effective weapon if need be, and in this case, it was justified.

I pray that kind of violence never comes to me.

I know plenty of non-LEOs who have had to clear leather. It's not like they all wear a special shirt that says they've had to do so.

One time a couple of years ago.

Funny. One of the two times I came close was in the Bricktown, in OKC.

All you gun carriers sound barking mad to me

Why?

Yes, please tell us

That's why the UK is a shadow of former self. Very few men left in the UK

Gun crime has increased 89% in the UK in the last decade. You might have to rethink your position.....

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

You seem to be looking for reasons to draw your guns.
And as for the creep who called me Pussy for not wanting to carry a gun, you are beneath contempt

Sounds like you have it worse.... better get off that high horse

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
•In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
•Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
•During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
•At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
•Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

You base your assessment of the US gun culture off the internet?

Looking for a reason?

I can't speak for the others, but I made the decision that I am responsible for my life and the life of my family. You cannot count on the police to protect you.

Very few people actually get CHLs. The number is something like 2% in Texas. And the places that have shall issue laws, the crime rates have gone down. Wild West shootouts don't occur.

Actually it is just the opposite. Our country was founded on the gun, it was expanded by the gun, and it has been the way since it's inception.
People who carry a gun have had to make some soul searching decisions (or at least the responsible people) and don't take the responsibility lightly.
We are not looking to draw on someone, we get plenty of time at the range, or hunting, or whatever form of the recreation we use so it isn't like we are looking to draw on someone.
Now having said that if you put my life in danger, or worse yet someone in my family rest assured you will be seeing the wrong end of my gun, and it is the last thing you will ever see. Do I look for this opportunity? not by a long shot (no pun intended) does anybody else? I doubt it, especially from the people on this board.
I started shooting when I was about 6/7, under the strict supervision of my father, I was taught proper respect for a gun, and those values were passed along to my children and followed today.
Your country is vastly different than mine, thus the differing opinion.

I lived in England (Woking) from 1996-1997. There were areas of London (and other cities) I was told to avoid. No different than any other country.

In 1998 some friends from England came to visit. They rented a RV for a month long vacation.
They were amazed by three things:
1. The size of the US
2. The wealth of the US
3. The fact that they drove around half the country during that time and never heard a gun shot, saw a dead body lying in the street, or were held at gun point.

They immigrated here in 2004. That tells you a lot about the truth versus the internet.

And movies/TV/The News