some students can't think...
 

Just had a young lady leave my office... she's a new student (our fall half term just started yesterday) and has never been in college before.

She heard we offer online classes, and has registered for 3 of them.

Her only computing devices are an old Android phone with cracked screen and a Nook tablet.... neither device has a browser that works with the exam/testing engine in our course management system, and of course, neither will have an office suite so she can write and submit papers.


But at least she got registered in time to collect financial aid for the term. :rolleyes:

People need to be given the tools to succeed, and they need the personal ambition to take those tools and make something of themselves. It sounds like this woman had a little of both but not enough of either.

My oldest son is now safely ensconced at a private liberal arts college that will coddle him as he learns to stand on his own. It is quite demanding, but there are enough resources available that if he works hard and pays attention he can't help but succeed. But about two years ago he somehow managed to flunk high school chemistry. Visions of not graduating from high school, not going to college, and a life spent digging ditches danced before our eyes for a few days before my wife characteristically took charge and figured out a solution. She got him into a summer program that I could drop him off at on my way in to work and she could pick him up.

That summer I had to roust him from bed at about 6 am each morning, get us some breakfast and drop him off at school before 7 am. It was hard for both of us. There were days I was tempted to skip a day and not bother taking him to school. There were days he begged to sleep in and enjoy his summer. But in the end he was the only kid who showed up every day, did his homework and finished the course with a good grade.

As the summer wore on, he commented that all the other kids seemed to come from the inner city and had a lot of problems. They didn't attend class every day, didn't do their homework, and seemed poised to flunk summer school too. He commented to me somewhat contemptuously one day that the other kids didn't seem to try and didn't even go to class regularly. I thought of the effort it took for us to get going every morning and just imagined how tempting it must be for the inner city kids who didn't have parents who supported and pushed them to sleep in for "just one day". And how tempting it would be to say that to themselves each morning until they were hopelessly behind again. I quoted the famous line from the Great Gatsby (another advantage of having educated parents is constant lectures with literary references) and told Alex that he should remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that he had. I told him that probably none of the other kids had a father who woke them up in the morning, got them breakfast and then delivered them to school in a shiny red Audi. He admitted that they all had to make their way to school on the city bus.

Some of those kids will eventually succeed simply because of their native talents and internal drive. They'll figure out the system on their own and make it. But more would make it if they simply had someone there to show them how it is done and give them a little push to do it.

The woman in the story probably could make it. The systems seem all in place for her to succeed - on line learning, financial aid, and a nice local community college. But all of that is going to waste because she is lacking the common sense to put the front end and back end of on line coursework together, and she doesn't have anyone to show her the way. Maybe she'll figure it out and come back for the second semester, armed with a used laptop. More than like this was her one effort and since she failed once she'll figure she would fail again, so she won't try.

To bring this story full circle and not make a short point too much longer, Alex isn't much different than that woman. And in fact I'm not either. In not much different circumstances, I could be that woman, staring at you with vacant eyes, wondering why my Nook can connect me to the internet but you're telling me it won't talk to the school's computers.

future stripper at the jack shack

Unfortunately, not everyone has any understanding of technology. Everything is being made to be so user friendly that John Q Public expects it just do what they need when they turn it on. I suspect that no one ever taught her about computers and the only thing she's ever used is the phone. Some of us might be a tad too quick to judge. She may surprise you and become a quick study of the technology once its explained to her.

I sure hope the OP isn't her guidance counselor.

She's smart enough to know where the gravy train starts. That's all the govt wants!

Seems like a bunch of 1/2 empty glasses here.

Good on her for applying, being accepted, registering and trying to better herself I say.

They have computers at the library and I'm sure she can pick up a used computer for almost nothing (laptops even).

No kidding... Don't you guys have a computer lab somewhere on campus he can go?

And in my experience, school quiz and online programs are stuck in the stone age, most don't work well on computers, and are marginal at best on any sort of tablet. It's not totally her fault that the school IT hasn't caught up with technology!

Not much of a gravy train for her. She'll end up with nondischargeable student loan debt after she fails. It is a gravy train for the banks and brokers in the system (and in fact the school to a lesser extent) who get paid whether she succeeds or not. And the government will repay the loan and try to recover from her.

That's my complaint. The system sets people like this up to fail and creates a financial incentive to make her fail. There's enough incentive in the system for people to guide her through the loan application process and get her registered for class. Her student loans go through and they all get paid. But there's no check in the system to make sure she qualifies to complete her classes - does she have the basic education level necessary to pass the class, does she have access to the right computer system to complete the course?

The system should be designed so that she doesn't get the student loan until she demonstrates that she has the basic tools for success. And yes, you can use student loans to buy computers for on line classes. Or she can work at a library where there is free computer access, or maybe the school has computer labs. But this is the sort of thing that a well designed system should have sorted out [I]before[I] she got the loan and before classes started. At best she's already two days behind before she even starts and all that money and good intentions will go to waste.

Nope, I do the instructor training to use the system, and along with 2 coworkers support 600 faculty, 4000 fully online students, and almost 10000 students taking on-campus classes that use our online system for giving exams, distributing notes, turning in assignments, etc.

Guys, I believe the young lady has signed up for an online, short semester, course. I doubt she'll be taking an online course from the campus computer lab, although it would be available to her. It was an absolute necessity for me to have access to a computer to complete course work assigned for on campus classes.

I took one online course, it was very difficult not to procrastinate, and I can't recall whether I passed or failed. In my experience, putting my rear in a seat in the classroom was the only way I could have achieved what I did.

Having taken a 7 year leave of absence from my academic studies, I enrolled, but as a condition, was on academic probation. It was a difficult transition. I had to teach myself how to study. I remember registering for statistics my first semester back. My family thought I was nuts for doing so. They were right, it was a nightmare, a total struggle because I couldn't remember what tools I needed, aka formulas, to succeed.

I spent nearly half the semester in the math lab, every morning I had class, I was there. A 50 at midterm, but I did my home work, and aced the final. Made a C. It was the only C in 6 semesters. Made a 3.0 that semester.

The rest was a breeze, 5 straight dean's lists, 4 of which were under an academic scholarship. I had my rear in that chair nearly everyday. I quit buying books altogether after the 3rd semester. I do remember cutting a few times, but one when I didn't was when my father asked if I would cut so we could go fishing with my uncle in Grand Isle, La.

I might have missed 5 class days in 3 years, one was for a family funeral.

I think online classes should be reserved for those who work full time, or are single parents. A young lady having never been in college, taking an online course is a recipe for disaster.

My wife works at a local university. ANYONE that wants to go to work there or go to school there has to go to the web site and set up a user ID and then look for the job. If you can't use a web site you are too stupid to work or enroll there.

People still walk into the HR department looking for the paper forms to apply for a job. They just point them to a computer kiosk. One man said he "does not DO computers" and was furious that he could not file a paper application. They had to call campus police to escort him out.

I like your story very much. I think people assume we are all from the same starting point. Maybe that girl is a less fortunate student than the rest of her peers. But she had the balls to at least try. How many stuck up kids do you know who have a tablet, laptop, car, etc and still find ways to whine and complain college is too hard? The key here is that she doesn't give up. That somebody shows her or helps her figure out a way. I would bet that she would be more successful than her peers because she has overcome obstacles. It amazed me in college when I watched all the kids that had their tuition, books, rent, food, etc all paid for by their parents and still had the audacity to complain that college was so hard and celebrated while they got straight C's. it amazed me. I was never bitter. It was more like I was an observer. I didn't have a computer. Worked all through college. Ate eggs because they were cheap. And had to maintain a 3.5 GPA all through college to keep my scholarship. Otherwise I would have to pack up and go home. I remember I took Honors Calculus the first semester and you had to have this fancy calculator which I didn't have the money. So I borrowed my friends for the first two months. Walked to her dorm every day after classes to work on her calculator while she was at other classes or hanging out at the student union. Finally, after two months, I saved enough money to buy my own. My instructor probably would have thought I was stupid too if I approached him. But I didn't. I figured out my own way. Maybe this girl is like me. She just needs to find a way. :)

And by the way, I had never been to college or away from home. Still didn't have a computer by the time I graduated. Used the computer lab. Found an apartment complex that gave me a discount based on my GPA and had a computer you could use for an hourly rate. I was poor compared to my peers but I did it. And I did it with a higher GPA, honors, and awards. There is always a way. Like I said, if someone doesn't shoot her down before she even makes it out of the gate, she can do it too.

Can't she use the same facilities that the on-campus students are using for taking tests and turning in papers or is there a different system online students must use?

Finding an old computer for a few bills isn't that hard. Seems she was looking for a "free" tablet or computer from the school.

I was at a job site this morning and a crew showed up to lay block. I couldn't help but think to myself as I looked at their faces....these are the faces of the kids who either goofed off in school or skipped class.

That said - I respect them for working in a trade - even if it is mostly labor.

There will always be those who use school as a platform to reach for the stars...and those who simply "endure" it.

BTW - I do my best to mentor young folks as much as possible....that's about all you can do....the rest is really up to them.

Generally, tuition includes fees allowing access to computer labs, gym, libraries, etc... I tried to get around those fees, but had to pay them even if I didn't utilize the service offered. In other words, it's a bundle.

What I see is someone who is looking for the easier, softer way, at the tax payers expense.

Who's to say she doesn't have the means to buy a computer? I don't believe the OP said she couldn't afford one. Lots of assumptions here. Just because she doesn't have what's required now doesn't mean she doesn't have the ability to get it.

Really? How so? The OP simply said she didn't have a computer.

He didn't say she did either. I am just saying that maybe dig a little more, try to understand her situation more. Sigh. I guess I am the person who usually tries to give a person the benefit of the doubt before I claim them as stupid, lazy, "trying to take advantage of the system".

Through my years of nursing, I found it very surprising the ones who took advantage of welfare healthcare and those who did not. That perspective, in addition to my own experience of when people who gave me the benefit of the doubt, makes me lean towards the other side with the limited amount of information given in this post. So shoot me...

Couldn't agree more, tweez. I don't understand the jumps made so far on this thread based off of the limited information provided by the OP. For all we know she's a minimalist who doesn't care about 'puters.

And BTW, the thread title seems inaccurate. Seems the student is thinking very clearly and knows exactly what she wants.

is it because of low income she does not have something better? could just be someone trying to better themselves and does not know better and has no one to guide them.

My "free" comment was based on this:

University students: iBribed with a free iPad? | ZDNet

Some schools are offering all incoming students computers or tablets as part of their tuition. I think an on-line university was offering this kind of "freebie" as part of the tuition for on-line students. Could be wrong though.

[QUOTE=Baz;7718563]I was at a job site this morning and a crew showed up to lay block. I couldn't help but think to myself as I looked at their faces....these are the faces of the kids who either goofed off in school or skipped class.

That said - I respect them for working in a trade - even if it is mostly labor.


Well, around the job sites I've seen, those unskilled young workers are named Hose, Jesus, Migel, and more. THATS the problem for all the goof-offs or uneducated young people. Those jobs are gone now for those kids, taken by people who have less education and who are scammed by low wages by people who are unethical to say the least.

The system is designed so they do not get accepted to a college unless they have the basic tools for success. Or is this some low-level for-profit college?

BTW graduates of quality private liberal arts colleges usually spend time in the PeaceCorps...

Baz - the joke in this town is that it takes a Master's degree to get a job as a truck driver.

I am a Professional Engineer, I also have my MBA. I make good money, not great, but good.

The toolmakers and electricians that work for/with me typically end up making more money than me, and they probably sleep better too, as all the 'problems' on the job are mine. They get paid overtime, travel time, and a good per die. I am on salary and 'expenses' when I travel.

At one time they probably goofed off and skipped school, they learned a trade later in life and turned out fine for them. Sure they work hard (at times), but so do I.

The road of life has many twists and turns.

Santa Fe is a state college, formerly community college but we recently started offering 4 year degrees. Accredited via SACS. Unfortunately with all of our cool stuff (only teaching zoo in teh country), we are still "the other college" in Gainesville. Go gators.

She does have access to lab facilities, but they are not 24/7, more like 14/5 or /6.

Our on-campus students use the same course delivery system as our online students, and as far as SACS is concerned (and the way we treat it) our online classes are simply at a different branch campus. For a while, I even had a animated gif of a server rack w/ lots of blinkenlight as our "campus location" picture on the main website.

Our schools offer students iPads and my undergrad outfits every dorm room with one for each student...

If the OP can determine that the student truly has the desire for an education and does not have the funds to buy a computer, I suggest that we start a Pelican scholarship fund of sorts to help this young lady.

I'll start and donate $100 if the need is truly warranted.

I will drop in $20

Maybe $40 if you have pictures.

Someone had to ask.

Love you! This is what I am talking about. I don't want to hand out to people who don't help themselves but it seems like this girl wants to go to school.

What a great move by you! You have earned my utmost respect.

I will donate as well. :) Thanks for the motivation and move to action! Love it!

I'm an aerospace engineer, MBA in progress. Same setup here, when I was managing the flight test portion of a former project all of our flight mechanics made more than me. They had an informal competition to see who hit six figures first based on heavy OT, I think it was normally around June. Fantastic guys and totally deserved, the success of that program was just as much due to their hard work as ours. One of them has since started college to get an engineering degree, I always give him crap about taking a pay cut.:cool:

There is a difference between "stupid" and "untrained."

I worry about humans in general. We are great at challenges. We react poorly to things made easy for/by us, given to us.

Challenges bring out the best. Ease brings out the worst.

Twist of caps on beer bottles are a perfect example of that. How much better would society be if it was harder to open just one more beer?

I would suggest that she get a credit card and purchase a $2K+ MacBook Pro 'cause she "needs" one...err maybe not :D

To the OP...if you verify that she's willing to put some "skin in the game" (i.e. come up with "something") and isn't just looking for a freebie, then I'm willing to contribute also. Let us know...

I think it's cool folks here are so willing to help, but aren't we all being just a little presumptuous that this young lady can't afford a computer? Just because she has an old phone and a nook? Maybe she hasn't had a need for a computer? Just because she filed for financial aid doesn't mean she doesn't have money. ALL incoming students are encouraged to file for grants and aid regardless of their status. Just part of the admissions process. Just sayin'.:)

The young lady doesn't need a computer of her own. She might need a flash drive though. Fees associated with tuition afford her with an ample amount of resources to succeed. She has to get to school, but if she doesn't, I wish her well.

My brother had a stint at SF in the early 90's. Glad to hear of the accreditation status, id10t. My roots come from Gainesville.

MDH, are you back at UNT?

Also, I say good on her. She's got this far (enrolled) and things are starting to happen for her.

I remember a trick back in the early years of computing. You enrolled for any old accounting papers and the banks were all over you to come and work for them. Much the same may work for her.