Degree or Certifications
 

In light of my impending layoff, I am re-evaluating my education. I basically have an Associates, some old technical certifications and 23 years of technical, managerial experience.

So, do I take the time and money to get a Bachelors in my field? Interesting thing is I could probably teach most of the technical courses.

Or, do I get certifications, such as PMP, scrum master, etc?

Not having a degree has never really been an issue, even working at a University, but I am aging and having to compete with MBA's, MIS, etc.

What say ye?

thanks
-Brad

I have an AS and a ton of experience in computing, I actually teach 2 college classes on Linux. Funny thing is over at UF, the same content is taught as part of the software engineering BS and is a 4000 level class.

Thing is... while I have the knowledge to teach other stuff, I can't teach anything that goes to a 4 year degree ... without a masters in the subject or at leat 18hrs post grad in-depth stuff. Qualifying folks to teach properly so we can keep our accreditation is a royal pain for some departmetns.

What jobs are you looking for? Sr tech jobs, I value certs over degrees, especially since you have an AA. Though, my boss wouldn't interview you without a BS. Just the way he is.

If you're trying to be an IT Director, I'd say get a BS at least.

I'm a sr network/systems engineer (windows/vm mostly, and a Cisco novice). My degree did nothing for me, it was all certs and on the job experience. Buy I couldn't have my job without the degree. That's very dependent upon the company and the hiring manager.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the replies. I've been an IT manager, project manager, systems/network admin, etc, and a degree has not been an issue. But with the job market the way it is.........

I saw a story on the news last night about job hunting.
They were discussing the value of having your own web site.

These days, a minimal of a BS will get your resume in someone's hands. An MBA may allow your resume to bubble up to near the top. Neither are a guarantee of a job however.

If your current company has tuition reimbursement, I suggest going back to school to get a BS in Computer Science. (Don't get a BS in MIS - a full Comp Science degree expands your opportunities).

If you want to get into managemnent, then an MBA is something you should seek as well...

My $0.42,
-Z-man.

Here is some food for thought. Just food.

I graduated from my undergraduate studies with a stellar GPA - and I have never been asked for a transcript!

I have an MBA - and I have never been asked for any proof.

Given the above, I have always wondered about the "degrees" that used to be and may still be offered in the back of Rolling Stone.

The unfortunate point is you have the chops, not the sheepskin. Would it benefit you to have one? Perhaps.

I understand the ethics of the thing. You just have to be comfortable with a small fraud. I am not saying that I am comfortable with this but I do wish someone had asked for evidence!

Good luck,
Larry

You really need both. In the short run, Security+, Network+, PMP... are straight forward while you plan for the degree. CISSP is a good one too, just depends on what you want to do.

I like the idea of always studying for something in a progressive path. Even if you dont plan to take the next exam for a year or more, it gives you something to do in during the slow times.

Cant have enough certs or experience.

I'm going through the PMP process now. Is it worth it? Probably not, but the company is paying for it.

And on a side note, my application was approved, then when I paid for my membership and test, I was "selected" for an audit. What BS. Reminds me of when I took the LEED tests. A bunch of self righteous snobs.

It sounds like you've got LOTS of experience, and you should be at a senior technical or management level depending on which direction you prefer. At that level, I wouldn't think that any of the __+ certs would be useful. The PMP cert is not a bad way to get your resume seen. If you are going the management route, I would think that a degree may be useful. If you prefer stay technical, then certs would probably be better.

Very true

But even more important than any off those is your interpersonal networking. I've gotten most of my work (the last six jobs over the last 13 years) through friends and acquaintances.

Any reasonable pre-employment background check these days checks the transcripts and contacts the university for verification. My last two jobs did - one a small and one a very large company.

As a matter of fact, these background checks also check employment and often get salary information as well. It is also common that "back door" reference checks occur, where a connection was asked for input on a person. People a fantastically networked and it is frequently used to get a reading on a person outside of the references supplied by the candidates.

Definitely be honest on your resume and during your negotiations. If your morals don't push you that way, the background check should. :)

G

When I retired from the Navy in 1985 I had this same decision and since I planed to live in CA I found by job searches, even back then a bachelors was good, a masters was way better and a masters with a cert or two like Oracle DBA, Senior DBA, etc was great! I also found with a masters degree you can teach at most colleges, generally evening classes and days depending on which school it is.

So I got my BSCS and masters in software engineering, a CA teaching credential and worked as a Senior Oracle DBA until I retired in 2009. I did have one stint as a manager for COMNAVAIRPAC during Desert Storm but I do not work well as a civilian manager! So I started teaching in 1989 and do one or two classes a week which gets me out of the house and supported racing my 914-6 for many years! Since I sold it due to health reasons, the money helps buy that black powder my muzzle loaders seem to suck right up!

So it is up to you but a degree and and advanced degrees make you an engineer and not a technical person.

What exactly is your industry?

In my experience (fwiw I am 33) companies either sway one way or the other. I have known some (e.g. MITRE, Lincoln Lab) where a certain degree or cert is absolutely required, and everything from advancement to whether or not you get an office is determined by degrees and certs. I have worked for another (Virgin) where people could not care less what piece of paper you have, and where I actually worked with a very successful VP who had only a HS education and a couple of college courses... Which he took during his 12 years of tenure at Lotus.

At my current company (name withheld, but you have heard of them) it's helpful to have paperwork to get an interview, but on a weight basis someone with a BA and an inside referral is going to generally be more interesting than someone with a PhD and no referral. The interview process (which is notoriously difficult here) very quickly weeds out those who can from those who have paperwork saying they can. Not having a degree (or not having the right type of degree or cert) is not an issue... Getting hired without the requisite knowledge that would be backing up that paper, though, is nigh on impossible. If I were in your shoes, this is the situation I would look for... A place that will recognize that you can do XYZ because you have done it in past jobs and have real experience. These companies do exist, at least in my field.

Though I'm out of the game now, I got my BSCS (computer science) 30 years ago, then upon graduation began a career that started at RTP in IBM's Advanced Communicatons Division, and probably learned more in 6 months than my degree ever taught, and never looked back. If you're a "techie", leading, "bleeding edge" tech will NEVER be taught in a classroom or via certs imo. Degrees/Certs will only land you an interview and never meant squat in my real world experience, and your "personal network" will trump that for landing a new position too. I was a mainframe communications system programmer for years but I've worn so many hats that I can't remember them all (been called in for consultation on router design too), and have always "played" with the latest and "greatest" leading edge communications tech. Had the management "carrot" dangled when I was in my mid-20s (mmm....no thanks ;))....definitely get an MBA if you want to go that path imo, but for a "techie"...simply work that "professional network" and go.
Retired at the ripe old age of 48 'cause I simply got fed up with corporate bs and did NOT want to work for HP when my dept was outsourced in the fall of '08. Kowing what was coming with that once fine company...

"Ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more...." :D

Good luck!

I was an IT team leader. I hired based on ability. Certs and degrees did not weigh in. Had a cum laude grad from Lehigh that refused to get certs because they are really worthless, except to the know nothings who believed credentials equaled ability. I would recommend you have confidence in your abilities and go with that.

+1....I also interviewed candidates and evaluated their "expertise" while at a major corporation many years ago. Though I didn't make the "decision", never had one go against my recommendation either.

Well overall my thought is: Certs are for the short term and BS for the long haul. You should think of them as 'packaged' togther............

When you had a stack of resumes, were certs and/or degrees a factor in which ones got interviewed?

I know you didn't direct this to me, but in my prior corporate life...No. Degrees/certs are for HR filters, and frankly, HR was virtually worthless in providing and filtering our IT candidates. IT is a "small world" in one respect, and personal recommendations, on the job 'contacts', etc. sent viable ones "our" way. I only worked for four major corps over my career, and two positions were "created" for me when I became "available through the grapevine". If you have the skill set (mine was pretty unique), a degree isn't required either if the hiring manager (and the person in the corner office) want you. I never dealt with HR throughout my career...a wasted effort imo, and I just never went that route....YMMV.

ps: WORK those "professional contacts" when you want a position (even if a position isn't available at the time). I'm glad "I'm out now", but I do know how "the game is played" ;)

I agree, personal recommendations trump all. The job I'm at right now is actually the only one I've ever gotten without a personal connection. When I landed my previous position, they didn't bother with their standard three round interview process, I just came in to chat one day them they offered me the position two months earlier than when it was scheduled for.

I'm currently having "lunch" every week or two with a buddy and his boss... just chatting about cars, dogs, etc. He will have many positions to fill in the coming months.

But where I work now, they are hung up on paper. For our positions, if you don't have at least an MCSE, a CCNA, and 10 years sys admin experience you won't get an interview. My boss knows others might be better, but wants to be able to prove the "worth" of his team to the owners. You've got to play to your audience. The more you can ad to your resume the more likely you are to appeal to a wider range of hiring managers.

Just curious, how do they go about getting salary information during a background check without permission to contact your current employer?

"When you had a stack of resumes, were certs and/or degrees a factor in which ones got interviewed?"
Good question. I need to add my IT career ended 10 years ago. So I was in networking from the beginning until 2004. Taught myself Novell - it was the first large scale solution. In the early 90's servers with networks was the new thing.
As a manager in the late 90's early 2000's I found the people who taught themselves were the best. They were at it all the time AND they could obviously learn on their own.
Now - to answer your question. Certs would mean something to me back then. All the BS people had was theory. A Novell cert, or a Citrix cert or a Cisco cert was good, but I was able to talk to all applicants. We had a "gauntlet" interview process. Every engineer was invited to interrogate every new hire! :) A little rough on the applicants, but we got the best people. One guy went on the big a Big Dog at Citrix. He is still there.

I am enrolled to get my bachelors in IT Security and will also have 17 certs when the program is done. I have a AA so this is another 2.5 years.

A BS is a "Union Card" so to speak. My brother works as a Technical Manager at JPL. He started as a technician, and got his BS in Business after being there about 20 years, and that opened the gates for him to move up in a technical field. His pay scale ceiling basically doubled.

Me? BS, MBA and a few professional licenses and certifications. Don't use a lot of it day-to-day, but my employer believes that they are worth me having. They will pay for certification maintenance continuing education.

Even with permission to contact, I guarantee no corporation I ever worked for would divulge any more information than:

Yes, "so and so" was employed here from xxxx to yyyy.

I don't think they even offer if they'd rehire or not anymore (Remember those steeenking lawyers we were discussing earlier :)?).

That would always be AFTER you were hired too (if necessary). "Hey, you know where I freakin' worked....you lured me away :D"

ps: 'course there are ways around everything....

[QUOTE=dennis in se pa;7770396...Taught myself Novell - it was the first large scale solution. In the early 90's servers with networks was the new thing.
As a manager in the late 90's early 2000's I found the people who taught themselves were the best. They were at it all the time AND they could obviously learn on their own. .....[/QUOTE]

Exactly! Self taught here too. Microcode development, systems programmer, large SNA networks, online systems, large TCP/IP networks, Mainframes, high powered servers, more operating systems than I can count, web farms, IT security (firewalls, etc.), and that's just of the top of my head. Leading edge networking gear at every step of the way...

Just something to add, when I started with Boeing about seven months ago they asked me to put together a portfolio of my IT work. They were entirely disinterested in my certs or degrees, just the portfolio.

Start working with the best executive recruiter/headhunter you can find. Follow his advice. I would think that people who value what you do will care about your knowledge more than degrees or certifications, but they need to know you first. A recruiter will help you find employers who will fit you and will value your knowledge without requiring a degree or certification.

If you have to chose one over the other, in your situation certificates are probably the better bang for the buck. Of course it's always better to get a higher level of education, but telling someone with 20 years of experience and an AA to get an MBA is kind of pie in the sky. Assuming every AA credit will transfer and count toward a BS with no slippage, you're a minimum of two years full time study from a BS. And to what end?

Get connected with a recruiter who will find you an employer who is sophisticated enough to care more about your knowledge and skills than your pedigree. And once you're there, start working on your pedigree so you never have to worry about it again.

can you get CLEP'S [CREDIT for LIFE EXPERENCE] ?

Bingo! Good for you. Real new jobs in big companies are rare in Akron. Refreshing it can still happen.

You will do better buying a pair of jogging shoes, trim some weight and get some sun before an interview. Skip the Rolex (or any related hint of being wealthy/worldly) if you have one. You may piss people off, especially in a smaller company.

Articulate your portfolio in a down to earth manner. Bag the horse crap "strategic synergies through cross function integration" bull. Bag the "independently saved the enterprise $50 sqillion via unsurpassed forethought".

Just say what you have done and sell yourself on the talents you have.

Right now, A job is more important than a real good job.

Absolutely not. Don't even assume that means a thing. In fact, CLEPS is a detriment.

Specific experience in the area that a potential employer needs a resource - assuming a seasoned person is acceptable for hire - is the key.

The United States is a rough, rough country to be a displaced mature worker. Exceptions, sure. Average Joe without connections, expect a step down in income.