Jack Bariuth *(the writer at TTAC) rips Porsche a new one..

[lateapex911]

Avoidable Contact: Cayenne won’t help ya, Cayenne won’t do you no good. | The Truth About Cars

Well, THAT was interesting. And man the comments, talk about tangents!

One thing he failed to mention was the cost and effect of government regulations, the shifting consumer base, and the effects on an automotive manufacturer.

It seems today that to build cars, you have to be very small and basically a cottage /boutique company, OR you need to be big enough to cover the incredible costs of the regulations and overhead.

Porsche was far bigger even in the late 60s then a boutique firm, so they've had to grow to survive. (I think)

Anyway, interesting read.
Discuss.

[Noah930]

Interesting perspective, but not surprising. Porsche has already proclaimed that their goal is not to be a manufacturer solely of sports cars, but rather a manufacturer of vehicles aiming to have the sportiest model in each segment.

I'm just waiting for the Porsche minivan...

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Interesting perspective, but not surprising. Porsche has already proclaimed that their goal is not to be a manufacturer solely of sports cars, but rather a manufacturer of vehicles aiming to have the sportiest model in each segment.

I'm just waiting for the Porsche minivan...

I think you could call the God-awful Macan one of those. Porsche sure is making quite a few dork mobiles these days.

[Dan J]

Hey Land Rovers still in business after how many years of total crap and no sports car

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Interesting perspective, but not surprising. Porsche has already proclaimed that their goal is not to be a manufacturer solely of sports cars, but rather a manufacturer of vehicles aiming to have the sportiest model in each segment.

I'm just waiting for the Porsche minivan...

the sportiest minivan!

[S2GART]

Ya, this guy lost credibility as soon as he called a Toyota Celica a "sports car". If he wants to talk the truth about cars, start with fact that the Celica is a Corolla with a different body on it. Besides, the Celica is a front wheel drive car.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by RWebb

the sportiest minivan!

Excuse me. The Porsche Varrera.

Porsche Varrera - Wikicars

I looked up the Cayanne Turbo. As the article author notes, under $20k.

[javadog]

That guy needs to find another job. Writing isn't his strong suit. Then again, most journalists don't have much of a clue about what they cover, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Porsche didn't become one of the most profitable car companies in the world by being stupid. As long as they still make cars I'll buy, I don't care what else they do to survive. The money they make on some of the cars this guy *****es about makes for a better product for me.

JR

[lateapex911]

Originally Posted by Dan J

Hey Land Rovers still in business after how many years of total crap and no sports car

True, Dan, BUT, they've been selling the image of their African safari and off road credo, which goes way back.

Quick funny story (file this under smart people aren't always so smart)

My old swim coach is a local lawyer. Pretty successful, Amherst, etc. Decides to buy a Rover. The cheap $30K job, about 10 yrs ago. Now I know it's 'quality challenged', so to say, but he doesn't ask me until AFTER he buys it. (people sometimes would rather not know) Anyway, we're in the car in New Have and it's just snowed. Parking is reduced because of the piles of snow. He opines that won't matter to him...he's driving the Rover! He spots a 'spot', which has 3 feet of snow and makes a beeline. From the back seat I scream "Noooooo". Too late, he's beached it. Won't go back or forth or anything.

He's deflated..."But I thought a Range Rover could go ANYwhere???"

I got my loafers all messy pushing him out.

Smart people often don't think critically.

[dcjones56]

Interesting article. I'm amazed he actually gets paid to write such garbage. Porsche, like all successful automotive companies, understands that it either evolves and gives the public what they want or go belly up. Only the fittest automakers survive this world's economy or get their governments to bail them out. I went from my 997 to my Cayenne because of comfort and roominess issues. I got my Cayenne for three reasons, one it had plenty of room for me and my stuff, two it was all-wheel drive, and three it was a Porsche, although be it a re-badged VW Toureg, but weren't the first Porsche cars using VW parts too? But I liked that it was badged a Porsche. Some of the best road/vacation trips my wife and I ever took were in the Cayenne. If I were in private practice and off of public assistance making the kind of money I once made, I'd be driving a Cayenne diesel with the premium plus package and all of the techno goodies.

[Ronnie's.930]

In keeping with the theme of the article, I imagine it is fairly embarrassing to long time, old school employees of Porsche to be associated with the likes of the Cayenne, Panamera, and Macan (understandably so).

[dcjones56]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

In keeping with the theme of the article, I imagine it is fairly embarrassing to long time, old school employees of Porsche to be associated with the likes of the Cayenne, Panamera, and Macan (understandably so).

I'm sure that is very true, until they cash their paychecks or retirement checks and then whatever embarrassment they had from being associated with such inferior vehicles is forgotten as the check is deposited into their bank accounts. Has Porsche sold out? To the purist and the closed minded, yes. However, if it were not for these luxury items Porsche would not be in business today, as much as I hate to say it, the sales of the 911, 928, and 944 were not capable of sustaining Porsche, and governmental regulations eventually killed the beloved air-cooled engine too. Times change. Companies change or go out of business. Those are the grim facts of life.

[lateapex911]

Originally Posted by dcjones56

I'm sure that is very true, until they cash their paychecks or retirement checks and then whatever embarrassment they had from being associated with such inferior vehicles is forgotten as the check is deposited into their bank accounts. Has Porsche sold out? To the purist and the closed minded, yes. However, if it were not for these luxury items Porsche would not be in business today, as much as I hate to say it, the sales of the 911, 928, and 944 were not capable of sustaining Porsche, and governmental regulations eventually killed the beloved air-cooled engine too. Times change. Companies change or go out of business. Those are the grim facts of life.

Exactly.
Porsche doesn't mean the same thing to say, Ashton Kuchar as it did to, say, James Dean. Times change.
The exorbitant expense of regulations forces companies to go big in order to utilize the economies of scale just to survive. There is no 'middle size" in car companies any more.
On the other hand.......
Porsche has parleyed themselves into the position of charging obscene monies for certain things. Colored belts? Add a LOT more than the dye color! They laugh all the way to the bank when the custom order book comes out. yeeehaw!~

Still, I get it. Even though that stuff is a complete ripoff, it's just one teeny part of the total picture.

Now, I totally 'get' that they need to be very careful about whoring their image in terms of suggested retail pricing*, it would be cool to see a true entry level sports car from them. Small LIGHT, LIGHT LIGHT, with a flat four even.

But, I know thats highly unlikely.

Jacks a character, and only time will tell if he's right, but, many companies have gone year after decade making cars that have bad residuals, and are doing (selling) fine. (cough BMW cough,) so my gut tells me Porsche will be around for quite awhile, in one form or another.

* it will be interesting to see what the effect of the new baby Merc is on the brands prestige rating a few years down the road. Right out of the box, it's selling well, but, as a car, it's nothing special. And jeeez, who decided that hood cut line was a good idea?

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by dcjones56

I'm sure that is very true, until they cash their paychecks or retirement checks and then whatever embarrassment they had from being associated with such inferior vehicles is forgotten as the check is deposited into their bank accounts.

Hogwash - this way of thinking would only apply to those that are in it solely for the money - you are selling many people seriously short here.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by dcjones56

Has Porsche sold out? To the purist and the closed minded, yes. However, if it were not for these luxury items Porsche would not be in business today, as much as I hate to say it, the sales of the 911, 928, and 944 were not capable of sustaining Porsche, and governmental regulations eventually killed the beloved air-cooled engine too. Times change. Companies change or go out of business. Those are the grim facts of life.

Regardless of the causes/reasons behind Porsche's sellout, it sure is disappointing to see a company such as Porsche producing three varieties of grocery getters. Hell, one was too many. And who cares how powerful, comfortable, luxurious and costly they are, they are still just glorified station wagons/mini vans.

[65rsr]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Hogwash - this way of thinking would only apply to those that are in it solely for the money - you are selling many people seriously short here.

Their passionate about deviating stitching.

"Former Porsche SE Chief Executive Officer Wendelin Wiedeking and ex-Chief Financial Officer Holger Haerter were charged with market manipulation over the use of options in a failed bid to take over Volkswagen AG. (VOW)
The indictment was filed after more than three years of investigations into claims Porsche misled investors in 2008 when it denied that it sought to buy VW."

[Ronnie's.930]

^^^ I'm not referring to the executive slime that make the decisions, but am referring to the genuine craftsmen that work for the marque. I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

[lateapex911]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

^^^ I'm not referring to the executive slime that make the decisions, but am referring to the genuine craftsmen that work for the marque. I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

Of the thousands of people who build the cars, I bet, if Ford had a nearby plant, and offered them better wages, and better hours or nicer conditions or better pensions...or some combination, 90% would leave, and "crafting a Porsche" wouldn't slow their exit one iota.

Now, Maybe some of the guys in the racing and 911/918/Cockster development would stay, but rank and file assembly guys?
Outa there.

[javadog]

You know, Porsche isn't in the business of making used cars, so most of you guys aren't what I would call Porsche customers. Don't take it personally, but you choose to drive older Porsches, for whatever reason. As such, don't be offended if Porsche builds something you don't want, since you aren't their customer in the first place.

The cars they build today are light years faster than the old ones. More comfortable, too. Better engineered, as well. Completely reliable? No. They are too complicated for that. The old ones had issues also, and were less well built, but most people forget such things, or were never around in the old days to learn them.

Cars like the Cayenne aren't a VW with a Porsche badge. They share a few parts with a VW, by design to reduce their costs, but they were engineeered by Porsche and use engines, drivetrains, bodies and interiors that are all Porsche. Who cares if they share some sheet metal stampings that you'll never see? Go back in time and study other joint efforts with VW. Porsche always ran the show and did the design work.

Wanna ***** about the options? Go ahead. They were doing the same things in the glory years of the company, when they built the beloved vehicles you now worship. You don't often see examples of what they would do 30 years ago but you would be amazed at what options were available. Want leather covering for your gauge faces? No problem, just check the box. Want to cover every single switch in the interior in leather? No problem, you can have that too. At a price... You want to know what nose-bleed prices are like? Go order a new Ferrari. There are steering wheel options that cost as much as a 3.2 Carrera. You can look at it another way, too. If they didn't make some of their money on crap like that, they would charge more money for the basic cars. Would you rather pay more money for your next new Porsche, or have the freedom to not order a few options you don't want anyway? Wait, I forgot... you have no plans to actually buy a new Porsche... never mind.

Let's talk about the employees, shall we? The guys like Bott, Lapine, Metzger, Singer are all gone. Some are retired, quite a few are dead now. Those were the guys you heard about. Working underneath them were hundred of guys that you didn't hear about. Many of them are still there. Others just like them have been hired. Porsche has a lot of talent, you just don't hear about them. 30 years from now, when somebody pens a new book about this era, you'll learn some of their names. They are the guys that matter.

The guys that build the cars? Who cares... Porsche never did. It might surprise you to know that during the heyday you guys think was Porsches' finest era, they were using whoever would work for a specific wage. If that was a real German, great. If that was a guy from Turkey, that was fine also. You should have seen how they built the cars. Things are a lot better now.

Let's whine about depreciation, shall we? That's a product of our time, not a problem caused by Porsche. Rather than go into the myriad reasons for it, let's just say that all cars in their price range suffer from the same problem, for the same reasons. You can look at it another way, too. It will make your next Porsche that much more affordable.

One more thing... althought the Porsche family got out of the day-to-day operation of the business in the very early 1970's, there are family members still lurking in the shadows, with enough clout to suggest which way the company should go in the future. If the current direction doesn't suit you, rest assured it suits them and their name is on the front door, not yours.

JR

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by lateapex911

Of the thousands of people who build the cars, I bet, if Ford had a nearby plant, and offered them better wages, and better hours or nicer conditions or better pensions...or some combination, 90% would leave, and "crafting a Porsche" wouldn't slow their exit one iota.

Now, Maybe some of the guys in the racing and 911/918/Cockster development would stay, but rank and file assembly guys?
Outa there.

I guess I'm not writing clearly enough. I did not say or imply that all of the people building the various Porsche models are dedicated craftsman who would work there for less pay than they could find elsewhere. I used the word "craftsman" to represent those that work at Porsche, who might be embarrassed by the association with grocery getter models, and still feel embarrassed despite their pay checks or retirement checks.