Landlord here... 15 plus units, 15 plus years, and I have seen it all... sigh

State laws superceed anything the landlodr puts in the RESIDENTIAL contract. If the state law states unit has to be "broom swept" which is what most states require, then thats all you have to do. COMMERCIAL is completely different.

Triple damages only applies if you are not NOTIFIED that your deposit won't be returned. In most states, the landlord has 21 days to let you know if you are getting it back, and to send it to you.

If he tells you in writing that you won't get your deposit back for "xxx" reason, thats all he needs to do. You then take him to small claims court and sue for the security deposit. Thats it. Treble damages don't apply unless he is silly enough to not reposnd to your request to get it back...

Good luck! Sounds like you should be fine...

Bo

What's the new digs like?

small. Very small. I can't unpack most my bedroom. Too many guitars and amps, PC desk, TV, drums... Setup of the new shop took about two weeks.

Went from 3800 square feet to... 1700.

:(

Most of the room in this house have proved to be exactly the wrong dimensions for anything. Lots of wasted space. Not even a suitable place in the living room for a TV...unless hung on the wall high above the fireplace. Near the ceiling.

Had to have most of the electric outlets re-done. My expense. Very few grounded style outlets. None in my room that are actually grounded. if I plug in an amp, they're likely to kill me.
I was running no less than 13 items for my PC and TV stuff off of one single outlet, till a friend put in some 3-prongs and tied them to a GFI outlet he installed at the start of the circuit. The GFI can't be grounded unless the wall is torn out :(

Washington Landlord/Tenant law is very clear, and very well balanced to protect both sides.

The landlord must, within 14 days of moving out, refund the deposit and/or give a detailed accounting of any portion retained.

A Move-In condition report and Move-Out condition report are required in Washington, to be signed by both landlord and tenant.

If there is no move-in report, it is illegal for the landlord to withhold any portion of the deposit.
An absolute no-brainer if it goes to court- Tenant wins!

Washington Landlord/Tenant law also has a good explanation of the differences between damage vs. normal wear and tear, and the landlord can deduct nothing for wear and tear items. Carpet cleaning and paint are definately normal wear and tear unless the tenancy was extremely short (Don't remember the time frame).

In short- The landlord can deduct from the deposit only for clearly itemized damage, and must use the signed Move-in and Move-out reports as proof.
The costs must also be reasonable- Landlord cannot charge $400 for a burned out light bulb or torn window screen.

Wolfe- If you are expected to show a reciept from a pro carpet cleaner, it is reasonable for you to ask the same- Ask the landlord to show his reciept that the carpet was professionally cleaned prior to you moving in (just to play with his head!). Not neccessary since he cannot legally charge you for carpet cleaning after three+ years.

Disclaimer:

While I am familiar with the State's landlord/tenant law, the City of Seattle has some additional requirements. Because of this, I've never had any property within the Seattle City limits. Not becuase the rules are unfair, but because I don't want to have to keep two sets of rules in my head, and remember which property has which rules.

As a landlord, the people who pay money every month are my customers, and I want to provide them with excellent customer service.

How silly for this guy to argue over such trivial crap like a burned-out light buld.
I don't get it.......

Ugh. Hope that with creativity and time you can make the smaller space work. I'd really love to someday see you in a live work loft or commercial space or something really suitable and stable. It is a bummer that you have to move your shop every few years!

1700 sq ft is small? Wtf lol

I beleive tomorrow will be 14 days. Nothing was in the mail today. Hopign to find the box emtpy tomorrow. :D

Ask him for a copy of his.. damn, that's good. I must do that.
Too bad it's only been 2.75 years.



Oh my, yes. Don't forget I run my business at home. I have a ton of guitars, amps, other musical equipment, milling machine, bandsaws, drill presses, coil winders, drum set, work tables, parts inventory, furniture, tools, books/media and scads of stuff. I wound up getting rid of one of my couches... it's a good thing I did. I freecycled half my life away before we moved.

I figure the minimum space I need is about 2500 feet if I live with someone else. If they don't have a ton of stuff. By myself, about 1900.

Do you usually set up your shop in the garage?

Wolfe:
Make sure the new mailing address(whatever) for your security deposit is sent via certified mail.

Some states give only seven days for this legal requirement.
Otherwise, the former tenant's rights may be forfeit.

2.75 years is way past the deadline where you cannot be charged for carpet cleaning. I thought you were there 3+, which is why I said that. The state limit is only like six months or so. Don't remember for sure.

Another clause in Washington Landlord/Tenant law is that a Rental Agreement or Lease cannot have the tenent give up any rights allowed under state law.

Even if you signed an agreement that you are responsible to clean the carpets, that is unenforceable, as it conflicts with L/T law.

If it goes to court, this is a no-brainer:
-Charging for normal wear and tear?
-Withholding deposit past 14 days?

"We find for the Tenant! Next case..."

Yes, this way I'm not paying for two rents, electric, water, phone/internet, etc. I can work and do R&D at any time. Which is pretty much whenever I'm not sleeping. Or watching the Walking Dead :)


Good to know!

14th day. Nothing in the mail today.

Wolfe-

Not sure if my private message was sent successfully, so here it is in case you didn't get it:

Unless he can prove that the yard has deteriorated from when you took possession, he should not be able to withhold anything from the deposit.

IIRC, you posted pictures of the messy yard long ago. If you still have those, or any evidence whatsoever, you should be okay.

For that matter, even if there are reasonable deductions from the deposit, once past 14 days, I don't think he has any right to withhold anything.

That may be all you need:

"Your Honor, upon leaving this property, we left it in better shape than when we took possession, and the Landlord is in violation of Washington Landlord/Tenant act by not giving us a detailed accounting of our Security Deposit within the State's mandated 14-day time frame."

Simple, to the point, not taking up excess time with superfluous details.

Hope it works out well.......

It was. Your PM box is full,. BTW. I'm at 98% lol.

Yeah, I think I remember posting pictures pretty early on. I'll have to look for them. I've also spoken to the RE agent who initially showed us the house. We keep in touch regularly. He remembers the house quite clearly, and remembers how overgrown the yard was. I also remember, when we were signing the lease, that the property manager has said that because the yard was so overgrown, they weren't expecting a whole lot. Of course, that's his word against mine...
However, one look at the yard should show any normal person that it would be impossible to cut back without a full team of Home Depot guys working 'round the clock for months. We were, literally, situated on a wetland.

Yeahh... I did post the pictures of the Horsetail growth... I remember that. It was everywhere:eek:

Today is the 14th day. Nothing came in the mail.

Little bit of an update here...

On Sunday I emailed the Property manager a statement of the law, a request for my deposit and that I had not received any communication from him. I also stated a Registered Mail copy would be sent.

He emailed back stating that a "preliminary" report had been mailed out last week, and that a full report should be mailed out "in a few weeks" and that stuff was being removed from the prelim, and that at this point, the only things I should be charged for are cleaning and a "some light bulbs"

Well.. a "preliminary" report is not a "full and specific" report as stated it must be in the law. Spoke to the Landlords-Tenant association about this, and they agreed.

Fail....

Sounds like he's dragging ass...... it'll cost him lol

He did that a lot. It took him more than 2.5 years to have a dangerous grove of trees removed. We lost four over that time, one hit the house and smashed the rear deck, two landed within feet of vehicles, one got hung up in branches and hung there, suspended in mid-air for a month.
Leaning toward the house and parking pad, they were quite a danger...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/GcYYqQmqN0k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That happened at my old house in Ohio. ...... called the land Lord, told him one of the50 foot Pines was leaning funny...... someone was there cutting it down within hours. ... before I even got home from work lol

Wolfe's story is why we hear ex-landlords who say they tried renting property, and it was such a nightmare they will never own rentals again.

Know the rules, play by the rules, and rental properties can be relatively pain free.
Make up your own rules as you go, and you're asking for trouble.

Wolfe's landlord obviously doesn't have a clue how the real world works.
Before long, he will join the ranks of people saying renting property doesn't work.

The owner may know the rules, but the property manager sure doesn't (or doesn't care) Lots of bad Yelp reviews about that company. I spoke earlier with his operations manager today, who repeated that what was mailed out was only a "preliminary" report. It's in an email from him, as well.


"Preliminary" does not mean "full and specific" as the law states, eh? As Dantilla knows (I'm sure) it must include the full amount of deposit owed... yea?

Yep.

I wouldn't be so fired up about this, but we experienced some major issues with the property manager towards the end. Well, really, thru our whole stay. If he had been decent to work with, I'd probably not pursue it as aggressively as I am.

Sent my Certified mail today. Filing in small claims tomorrow.

I'm a landlord with about 40 properties and have been managing them for over 20 years. Property managers like this piss me off. There has only been a few occasions in those years where I charged for something out of the security deposit. I made money from rent all these years and I can handle wear and tear. Last month I charged a previous tenant for two screen, which cost about $115. They cut the screen out of the frame to fit an ac unit. Their repair used some big screws on the frame to fasten the screen. Frames were destroyed so I just replaced two of them. The apt was not cleaned very well, so I called my cleaners to strip the floors and reseal along with cleaning the place. I only charged the tenant for the screens.

With your situation, I think you have a couple other remedies. You can call the RE licensing commission and tell them the property manager is in violation of the landlord tenant code regarding return of security deposit. You probably also have a regulated industries office that oversees the licensees where you can file another complaint.