Aspen crash video
 

This is spooky. Were the drivers asleep at the switch?


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It would be cool to hear what the pro pelican pilots think of this.

I've heard the 601 Challengers can be a challenge on approach/landing.

Looks like the jet engines gave a burst just as it was about to land - maybe the pilot had second thoughts and was trying to abort landing.

Tried to abort a landing with a strong tail wind at high altitude. Pulled up too hard, lost lift, gravity did its thing.

Hard to make a good landing out of a bad approach.

Yep, you can see the snow blowing on the ground indicating tailwind. Might have bounced after a firm touchdown and then it almost looks like the other pilot, if there are two pilots, pushed the yoke forward. Aspen is a tricky place to get into if you're not fully prepared. Go-around plan/route, thin air, shifting winds, terrain, weather (cloud cover). If it was a stall then the pilot must have really yanked back on the yoke--right through the stick-shaker. Panic? Like, oh ****, we MUST land. That's why we can't rule-out a second pilot. Maybe the other pilot immediately over-rode the decision to go around? That's happened many times. Thin air makes for a potentially challenging climb problem, especially if the jet came in on the heavy side (carrying fuel to get out of there later--maybe fuel in Aspen costs more). Before departing the destination you need to check your climb capability if you do miss the approach/go around. Can you get out of there? Single-engine/engine out is a huge consideration too. If we lose an engine can we climb out from a miss/go around? Many factors. Braking action, while not a factor here since they were careening dawn the runway in a fireball, is another big item. You can land, you just can't stop. I've had the other pilot do stupid **** close to the ground--while I'm flying--and had to deal with it (both in military and commercial aircraft). I'm sure other guys here can attest to that. Did the pilots survive this one? Love to hear their story.

Three pilots aboard. One fatality, two injured.

http://aspenjournalism.org/2014/01/21/aspen-airport-releases-video-of-jan-5-jet-crash/

I think it was a 25 kt tailwind into a high elevation runway, and all of the instrument approaches have unusualy steep finals. You really need to have you sheet in one sock to make it work, because any one of those factors alone will make a landing difficult, let alone all three. A steep final in very thin air makes it really hard, if not impossible, to slow down if your not configured and on speed at the FAF. A strong tailwind makes it really challenging to make the touchdown zone. Combine that with being fast, and you have to literaly force the plane down to make it land.

Purely armchair analysis, it looks like they were fast and steep on final. The pilot forced the plane to touchdown, got a severe bounce and over corrected, face first into pavement. Probably best if they never even went in, with the terrain and tail winds.

Was headed for Crested Butte when my plane was cancelled into Gunnison. Reason given was too much tailwinds. Missed a day of skiing but after watching this I am thankful for whoever made that decision.

I've flown into that airport quite a few times, it's an adventure. On a related note, It is supposedly the densest concentration of private jets in the world. These are from last summer: :cool:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1390418913.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1390419171.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1390419258.jpg

The runway at Aspen is not level. It's a tricky airport to land in normal conditions because of the 1.9% grade landing on 15. Runway is 8,000' long. Add a strong tailwind and one can get into trouble very quickly.

At 2:14 in the video it appears to be either smoke or big gust picking up snow off the left wing. Approach doesn't really look stabilized. Could be wind shear resulting in a big enough bounce to damage the control surfaces which caused the sudden nose down attitude that put them into the ground.

Scary ****. I land there frequently. I've never had an oh moment there. Been scared a couple of times landing in Sedona.

Would not want.

I've changed my mind. I don't think he lost lift. I think either the pilot or co-pilot over corrected from the bounce and slammed it down. The camera 5 coverage tells the story.

Surely not the densest concentration of airplanes. KTEB has that beat hands down. I've flown into KASE hundreds of times, just ask SLODAVE :), and it certainly is very tricky. You simply can't get behind the airplane or the approach going in there. Those airplanes have a 10 knot tailwind limitation and this is why. The FAA is going after the other 6 airplanes that landed ahead of him with violations. But that nose down attitude is really weird. I don't think a full stall would point the nose down that far in such a short period of time. You can see they went full power after the first bounce. Had to have been the wind picking up the tail in conjunction with someone pushing the nose down.

Pretty amazing that anyone live through that.

I can't verify "hundreds" of times, but I know you have at least once for sure (and plenty of other times)! :D

One from looking towards Aspen mountain. You can see how everything is going up hill at the airport.

https://scontent-a-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/..._6330520_n.jpg

Looked like the guy tried to get it back into the air after several nasty attitude changes, maybe pulled up too hard and the stick pusher put it back down.

JR

Where is KTEB? I know that both Santa Monica and Van Nuys airports here in L.A. have a lot of private jets, I had just heard or read at some time that Aspen has the most. There are hundreds parked there, practically stacked-up.

I'm talking private jets, not planes of all kinds.

Dumb question: why IR cameras?

Why were they landing downwind?

You can't fly over the town of Aspen. This prevents the airport from turning around when the wind shifts.

RE: IR... To see through snow/fog.

Flight line security at night.

That and as the video shows, IR "sees" things a non IR camera can't possibly: The accident video would have been aircraft lights tossing about and then the explosion and that is about it.

IR has changed the way we fight and watch.

Gusty winds (wind sheer?) is what I heard on the TV news.

Bummer.

www.theavherald.com is worth a look for pilots and nonpilots looking for a bit more tech details on daily incidents

Makes sense.

Did anyone see the SF Asiana incident video off the OP's link? :eek:

Read on another forum that the FAA intends to cite the 6? bizjets that landed in front of the Gulfstream for landing well above max edit tailwind.

Max for the Gulfstream is allegedly 10knts - winds were well in excess of that.

Think Joeaska has a ton of hours in the type.

I think 10 kts is max recommended tailwind. (No limit on crosswind component)

Here is a good commentary on the event.

A Longtime Pilot on the Aspen Crash - James Fallows - The Atlantic

Teterboro. Hundreds upon hundreds of airplanes there year round. It is the GA airport right outside of NYC.

It is not a recommendation it is a limitation. Meaning if you break it, you can get violated by the FAA.

I have almost 8k hours in the CL-65 which is basically the same airplane as the Challenger with a couple fuselage plugs added to hold 50 people.
I wouldn't say its tricky to land but its a little different than what most are used to flying on larger airplanes. The approach speeds are relatively high and the entire approach is flown in a nose down attitude since its a 'hard wing' meaning no leading edge devices. So there's a little bit more of a rotation in the flare than you have on airplanes with slats.

Landing at high elevation means you're going to have higher true airspeed. Couple that with a tailwind and they must have been cooking coming in there. Higher ground speed means higher descent rate which may have caught them off guard as the runway rose up to meet them.

Inadequate flare results in a bounce off the main gear, inadequate correction means they come back down on the nose gear, the mains come down hard, porpoise up and throw the airplane up into the air with a pitching down moment. Come down hard on the nose again and that's all she wrote.

Nothing more than my speculation from my watching the video and probably completely off base but there you goSmileWavy

What Gulfstream?.. not heard anything about a Gulfstream...

Didn't know Joe flew Gulfstreams, knew about Lears, etc.

Did a Gulfstream land before the crash?

The Challenger that crashed was the last plane to "land" there for the day.