I disagree with the use of violence to solve problems. Teaching your kid to stand up to a bully is teaching them to use violence to solve their problems. That lesson will stay with them the rest of their life.

While it would be great if violence were never the answer the harsh reality is it is sometimes the only and unfortunately the necessary answer.

The lesson that we teach our kids is knowing the difference.

And FWIW one does not need to resort to violence to stand up to a bully, no one is saying that.

I will respectfully disagree and continue to instruct my kids that they have every right to defend themselves with an appropriate response to aggression.

That response could be using physical force or it could be to turn and walk away depending on the specific situation they find themselves in.

I'm in 7th grade, first day of wrestling class, and we are all waiting for the coach in the small hallway outside the gym.
About 20 students.
I'd thrown-up twice that morning with a nasty case of the stomach flu.
Felt like crap, but nothing happens on the first day.

I'm standing behind Billy, the 9th grader 'golden-boy' top wrestler who was twice as big as myself.
He's talking with a group with his back to me, when he suddenly spins and punches me in the stomach.
Full swing. About as hard as he could.
No words. No notice.
WTF, I had never even met this guy before.
I go home crying. If I hadn't been sick as a dog that morning, it would have been a different situation.

The second day of wrestling class, I go back.
I looked forward to the wrestling part in general. I'm thinking I was going to get an explanation or apology here, eventually.
But if Mr. Billy and I so happened to end up in the ring, he would discover this skinny little kid half his size was a bit stronger than appearances.

We are all sitting on the mat while the coach gives his long intro to the class.
He suddenly stops talking, picks me out of the group, then tells me to stand up and explain to the whole class why I left the day before. The language used was pretty accusing. The coach was basically calling me out as a coward to the class.

WTF again. I walked.
No means to fight a bully backed by institution.

We all have stories about being a victim of bullying or even being a bully at one time, but the price we would have to pay to defend a child, yourself, your assets and your sanity is far too high a cost over pride and self-esteem.

It tugs at your gut because you know your childs action against a bully is a righteous and just one. But if the situation goes beyond "self defense" as in my son's case, you better be prepared to deal with the consequences. And I feel we are far more litigious as a society today and that the bully can become the victor. Measure your steps carefully.

Bob

I understand the point you are trying to convey Bob. But I would argue that you can't put a price on pride and self-esteem.

Whatever works for you Matt.

My situation turned ugly regrading the court and susequent events and that was eighteen years ago before the "bullying"problem became a part of the evening news. My son did learn restraint after that and now chooses his battles wisely!

Now I have to wonder about the grandkids.

Bob

WAAAAAAYYYYYY different scenario than what has been mentioned by those of us who admonish our kids not to let their asses get kicked.

you're talking about failing to hang with the verbal sparring that goes on at that age and turning to fighting over it. we (at least myself...I assume the other guys as well) are talking about teaching our kids to not just take a beating.

It's not always black and white. My son made the mistake of throwing a snowball at the back of a kid who is....soft. the kid gets pissed and tackles my son and actually hits him in the face. my son was just shocked by it. pushed the kid off and went to play with some other kids in the neighborhood. at first I was sorry that he didn't pound the little **** but in talking with a neighbor he pointed out that this kid is known to overreact and is a threat to no one. I knew this but wasn't giving my kid credit for knowing it. So my son, bless his heart, was smart enough to not beat the **** out of a 'friend' who in all honesty reacted in a predictable, if wrong, way.

Sunroof I do appreciate your story and agree we should all be cautious.

I also think when verbal sparring degrades to fighting then the aggressor needs to recognize he has already lost.

Simple enough..................sons gets verbally harassed in classroom in front of other students, then in the cafeteria yet restrains himself. Gets harassed at the bus stop and hauls off and hits the kid after telling him to shut his mouth and the other kid, classically says, "make me". Other kid got a punch it too, before walking away from the bus stop. You would think its over!

One hit, parents file aggrevated assault charge, police want to take my son to juvenille detention, hire a lawyer to defend son, prosecution wants the death penalty, kids parents want all hospital bills paid and files civil suit, legal representation again, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Am I missing anything? My situation is not rare........................your kid hits mine and I will see you in court!! your kid injures mine, your paying!! The judge will give the bully and parents a tongue lashing, but the one who throws the punch and injures will get the time.

Pretty basic playground stuff, but if an injury occurs, GOOD LUCK..

Solution? Teach your kid to hit in the gut and not in the face!

Well my rules for my kids is never be the aggressor but respond in kind if that is the only option.

As far as putting pride and self respect second, sometimes you need to swallow your pride and save it for another day. Self respect, I will never put that second, ever.

Sun, the problem with your son is he threw the first punch.

From a tactical standpoint it's the preferred option but I agree you can't do that these days and have instructed my kids accordingly.

A lot of these 'juvenile conflict' feelings could get hashed-out around a young/old campfire.

Small problems.
Easily fixed under consideration.

Just to clarify, I'm not encouraging my kids to fight. My instructions are simple - don't be a bully, don't throw the first punch, stand up for yourself, stand up for your siblings and those who can't stand up for themselves.

I was a chubby kid that didn't play serious sports, I had a target on me every day. My parents advocated walking away at any cost, so I did. Those who say that turning the other cheek or walking away is the solution to being bullied obviously haven't been bullied, showing weakness is like blood in the water. I eventually found that I could defuse most situations with my mouth, making someone look like a fool can be as effective as fighting them. I've actually only been in a few fights in my life, but more importantly found that being WILLING to fight was enough to make most bullies back down. It's simple psychology, and it hasn't changed. Bullies pick on the weakest because it makes them feel strong. Standing up to them flips that dynamic upside down, they no longer get the satisfaction that they are looking for and therefore look elsewhere for it.

Uh Huh, who needed WWI and WWII anyhow? If we just hugged the Germans and Japs instead of bombing 'em none of that war crap would've been necessary...

This 100%.

Whilst you don't want your kid getting in fights left right and center, a bully will quickly move on if he thinks there is even a chance he could be embarrassed. Walking away only encourages a bully, it makes them look powerful, and they come back to show off another day.

The trick is to have your kid get the message across that he is not an easy target, without getting in a load of trouble. Not throwing the first punch has to be step one. Defending yourself and others is the other part.

I can remember two occasions when I was a kid. One I kicked a bully off the class weakling. The bully got up and for a second thought about fighting me (he would have won), but something in his mind told him to move on.

The other occasion I was set about by a kid who was known for bullying, and I just defended myself. I never laid a hand on him, but I blocked every single punch that came my way and he never landed a shot. He was embarrassed and left angry, but he never tried to pick on me again. After all, what would be the point.

I think some of the motivation for a school yard bully is to show off in front of his mates, and he can't do that if the victim isn't rolling over and taking it. I plan to make sure my kids can at the very least defend themselves. I can also see the sense in being able to fight too, but I would never encourage it.

just my 2c

good thread.

Dad? Seriously, I could be your son...I was the kid in this (almost) exact equation.

I was small growing up (didn't "sprout" until Junior year), had red hair, and was smart. So, naturally, I got picked on. I'm also the youngest kid in my family of 7, so had plenty experience defending myself. We also did a lot of labor around the house, so I was strong. I also kinda loved fighting.

So, in 8th grade, this really big (but slow and dumb) kid picked on me. I had been in a lot of trouble lately, so really was trying to lay low. He kept at it and at it, so finally I blew up and beat the living daylights out of him; really bad (did I mention I had anger issues as a kid?). I ended up getting suspended for a couple weeks, arrested, and my parents got sued by the kid's parents. And they won a hefty chunk of change. I didn't even start the fight, but the punishment for "finishing" it was severe.

Even with that past, I teach my kids to defend themselves. As OWP stated, I won't put a price on my kids' safety, self-respect and dignity. If they find themselves in a situation where there is no way out other than violently, I will back them in court.

My neighbor is a "bully", and as I said in another thread, we (the neighborhood residents) are not afraid of him so much as we are afraid of going to jail or losing our jobs/assets/etc.

We all know what is right, and we all also know how these things usually play out.

These are all great stories here but what about today. what would you tell you kid to do TODAY. if you kid beats another kid down even if it is deserved you are getting you ass sued for sure right?

Thats right.

When the cops came to my door to press charges it was scarey as hell. When I received the summons to come to court (I was totally responsible for my minor child), I was not pleased I had to shell out several thousand dollars to keep my son from going to juvenile prison. Add the expense of medical bills to pay these parents and it was not a cheap day!!!!!!

It sucks when the legal system takes the upper hand.

In retrospect, I should have beat the crap out this kids dad in some dark alley!!

I'm in this camp, and evidently in the small minority. I have never thrown a punch in anger in my life. I've had bullies torment me from time to time (one particular guy in middle school comes to mind). There are other ways to deal with it. That was echoed by a san soo sifu I had when I was young. His teaching was:

1. use your head and avoid conflict
2. if that doesn't work, walk away
3. if that doesn't work run away
4. if that doesn't work, turn around and end it

Ego is the driver in most physical altercations. Very rare that someone is truly at risk of physical harm. That's just an excuse to save the ego. Fighting is a last resort.

The hugging thing surely worked out after WW2 with Germany. Should have been done after WW1?