Crescent shotgun problem...

Trophy425A · 04-14-2014, 06:13 PM

Got a significant problem w a Crescent 410 double barrel. I have a link to old thread from here regarding the same topic that received a lot of input from Targa911S. Hoping he might chime in here if still active on this site.

Trophy425A · 04-15-2014, 05:30 PM

Anyone have any input / suggestions?

Rand A.

vash · vash's Garage

go straight to targa..he's the man..the rest of us are gawkers. (except Mericet)

craigster59 · craigster59's Garage

We have 1 guy who joined a Porsche BBS to ask about perfume, and now one to ask about shotguns?

targa911S · 04-16-2014, 04:30 AM

what's up with your little gun?

Trophy425A · 04-16-2014, 06:45 AM

To make a long story short, after not having been fired for about 50 years, I took the gun to my local trap range just to put a couple of shots thru it...to make sure it was still functional. I fired one shot, which was " high brass" no 8 shot. After that I could not break the gun open to remove the empty. I was trying to consider possible causes, such as....

1. Bad head spacing (there is a little) causing the brass to expand and cause a problem

2. Firing pin not retracted and causing interference

3. Problem with the mechanism that breaks the gun open....this always worked before when working with the gun on the bench.

Just looking for thoughts from someone else that (really) knows these guns.

Thx in advance for any comments.

Randy A.

vash · vash's Garage

you went straight to high brass?

targa911S · 11:10 AM

Crescents are notorious for having the shakes when it comes to being off face. DO NOT shoot 3" shells in that gun at all. WAY too much pressure for the barrels, the wood, and the action itself. These were inexpensive "hardware store" guns. Crescent made guns under 200 names and were marketed by H.D. Folsom Co. The .410 or The Quail model is rare though as are most .410's. Most Quails have been shot a lot and that is why it's off face. Sometimes you can tighten them up by peening the hook/lump between the barrels. The rest of your problems probably stem from 90 years of crap, old grease and such, inside the action. A complete disassembly and a good ultrasonic cleaning should get it right again. If you choose to do it (cleaning) yourself PM me and I'll talk you through it.

Trophy425A · 04-16-2014, 11:38 AM

Thx for the reply targa. Just as a matter of information, this gun has never had 3 inch shells shot in it since probably the mid 1950's. Can't comment on it before that as it was my grandfather's gun and the one I first hunted with at the age of 9. Do you feel it's even safe to shoot modern 2-1/2 inch shells given the assumption that everything else is in proper working order, or should I just make this a "wall hanger"? I was thinking of restoring this gun as a "keepsake" , but not sure about that if modern ammo is a problem. I guess I was assuming that there wouldn't be that much difference between early 60's ammo vs what's available now. My mistake I guess.

As far as the off face due to use goes, I'm betting that occurred before my grandfather got it, as he was not much of a gun / hunter person.

Thx again for your comments.

targa911S · 04-16-2014, 01:27 PM

As long as the barrels aren't dented, bulged or badly pitted inside, it should be safe to shoot with modern ammunition. Just as an example and for your information, 12 ga ammunition from when your gun was made was 7,000 + PSI. Modern 12 ga ammo is 20,000 + PSI. Big difference. If you are going to restore it, do it properly. Don't be getting out the power sander. I can give you a lot of tips if that is your goal. I can also do it for you. I work as a smith at a federally licensed shop and I specialized in old doubles. I'm not trying to generate biz for myself but before you go too far and ruin it's good to talk to one who knows. PM me some pics of this little gem. How is the wood? Crescents are usually pretty busted up inside by the time they get this old. Here are some links to a Quail I did for a fellow pelican:

.410 finally finished...
.410 update....
Little .410 ready to assemble....

Trophy425A · 04-16-2014, 02:58 PM

Wow...thx for all the attachments. I assume that these had to do with the 410 w the dented barrel? My gun has almost no pitting on the outside of the barrel and none in the bore or chambers that I can see.....no dents either. The stock is not cracked on the outside that I can see...not sure of the inside condition. I think my father may have had someone attempt to address the off face issue by peening the radius of the hook that interfaces w the receiver. The checkering is not there on the pistol grip, and I hate to admit it but I may have been the culprit some 50+ years ago when a 13 yr old certainly looked at fixing up old guns entirely differently than now....my tastes have improved. There was a piece missing from the heel (?) of the stock which I put a patch on back then and could probably be dealt with now as is...I seemed to have lucked out there. The little grip plate and the butt plate were a mess, and after searching all over for good Crescent 410 replacements, I finally gave up and we made some at work using a 3-D printer. There are not exact, but I think they look pretty good. I fitted the butt plate exactly to the stock contour, so I'm fairly happy with that. I'll have to see what I can do about pictures, as I don't have any good ones at the moment.

Your work in the attachments is impressive to say the least! Thx again for the reply.

Trophy425A · 04-16-2014, 05:13 PM

Forgot I had some photos on my cell phone....not the best but here they are.

Trophy425A · 04-16-2014, 05:36 PM

Seemed to have messed up w one of the pics .... here's the 3D buttplate

targa911S · 06:20 PM

nice! Get rid of the phillips screws though. Not period correct. The phillips screw comes in after 1933 but on guns it never really gets established. Get some slotted head screws. If you like I will send you some. Index them so they (the slots) all point down the axis of the gun. Use Truoil for your finish. Put it on by rubbing it in with your fingers. It's looking good. I can teach you how to properly blue the barrels and small parts. Do not hot salt blue them. The salts will eat the flux in the solder that holds the two barrels together. You will end up with two single barrels. Cold blueing is really just cosmetic and offers little protection. They must be slow rust blued, and yeah if you can boil water you can do it. That looks like a really nice little gun, better than most I have seen. Nice job on the buttplate and grip cap.

Trophy425A · 04-16-2014, 06:41 PM

Thx for the info and nice comments. I've had some experience with the tru-oil doing 2 rifle stocks and my Win Model 50. Slowly getting better at putting that on....figured out the finger application was better doing the Model 50. I must confess I was sort of panicked and right now the gun is at a gunsmith attached to a shooting range nearby. He seemed to know what the deal was as far as getting the gun to "open", but now I'm thinking maybe I could tackle that myself. Maybe I'll go retrieve it tomorrow and then make up my mind. I have a reproduction of the Crescent literature for this gun showing the parts and their numbers and have also looked at a couple of videos on you tube.....not for a Crescent but very very similar. Maybe I can work up enough guts to do it. BTW....the butt plate screws are not really butt plate screws...they're smaller and don't have much of a shank on them. I had to do some screw hole "repair".....never gave much thought I guess to the phillips vs slotted issue.......I was just so happy how the 3D butt plate and grip turned out.

Jandrews · 04-16-2014, 06:45 PM

That Crescent .410 looks to be in great condition! As you saw with mine that David brought back to life, it was in much more dire straits. David did the impossible with mine...took a gun that was essentially a basket case, and restored it to "better than new" beauty, all while preserving everything about the gun that I cherished from my childhood.

Cool to see another one of these surface on Pelican. Keep us posted on what you decide to do with it. It goes without saying, if you want the master to lay hands on it...you have already located him.

JA

targa911S · 04-16-2014, 07:12 PM

Well thank you for those comps John. Your letter to me is a cherished possession of mine. Trophy if he doesn't know doubles....get it back. I will help you get it done.

Trophy425A · 04-17-2014, 04:37 AM

He seemed to know all about the Crescent "history" and indicated he already had a couple in the shop to work on......a 12 and a 16 gauge. On the other hand, I sort of feel like I'm bailing out if I don't tackle getting the gun apart myself. The gun obviously needs to be cleaned somewhere along the line and I didn't ask for that....just wanted to get it open again and then go from there depending on what (if anything) might have caused the problem. Decisions , decisions.

Thx for the encouragement.

targa911S · 04-17-2014, 05:23 AM

where are you located?

Trophy425A · 04-17-2014, 06:37 AM

I'm north of Chicago, just south of the Wisconsin border.

Just as a sidebar to this gun, I actually got a snow goose with it when I was 9 years old. Just goes to show that if you get enough pellets into something you can get the job done. My dad and grandfather didn't believe it initially as they were out in the field w the corn picker, but there was no one else around so they had to believe I actually did it. This memory is one of a few that makes me interested in fixing up this somewhat unique relic.