C185. Yum. I have a bunch of time in an early 180. Flew it all over the Idaho backcountry. Such a great platform.

I went a different route because I need to get places quickly for work, and I'm tired of going through security and dealing with commercial aviation...Lancair IV-P.

It's a lot further along now than these pics, but I haven't uploaded any recent ones to the computer. I expect to be flying late this year. Bodywork is finished, the new 400hp lump is on. All major stuff is done; I just need to grind away at the finish work.

http://i62.tinypic.com/s0wm1l.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/2irokty.jpg

That is a great hanger - windows! You don't see that very often.

Phoenix, Deer Valley (KDVT) has an uncommon policy. NO cars in your hanger, not even to park in while you're out flying. A while back some guy was painting his car in his hanger and a bit of overspray made its way up and over to the next hanger and settled on to another guy's car (which he wasn't supposed to have in there). KDVT admin said "tough luck, shouldn't have had your car in there".

Depends entirely upon what kind of condition it's in. Fabric, rust, engine overhauls, etc. are all possibilities. The thing to do would be to get it looked at by someone who has a lot of experience with rag and tube airplanes, preferably Cubs, and see what they think. I've got a PA-12 with 50 hours on a new engine, about 100 hours on new wings and fabric. I put away $50 for every hour I fly it, above and beyond gas and oil. That's probably low. That funds annuals, engine overhauls, fabric recovers and goodies. My last annual was $2500, but I had to replace my muffler and shrouds, which isn't normal. I have an 0-320 and overhauls are around $15,000, but you can get ten years out of one, maybe more. There are hoses, brakes, props and other assorted things that need replacement from time to time. You might want bigger tires (who doesn't?) or other mods. Hangars are highly recommended and those will run you about $350 where I live. I own mine, but monthly dues are around $100 for heat and lights, etc. Outdoor tie-downs run $25-75 per month. If you have little or no tail wheel time, your insurance is going to be "Ridiculously expensive", if you can get any at all. Good idea to check first, maybe. Depends where you are, also. AVEMCO wouldn't insure me at all (for hull) when I lived in Alaska. No sweat in Washington. I spent about $6500 last year, but that included a trip from Anchorage to Seattle, which was spendy. 100 octane avgas almost $7.00 where I live, and it runs me around $60/hour just for that. (I can't use autogas because of my engine). If you already have a Porsche, a boat and a wife, you might already be out of options. But - I'm making it work, and I'm RETIRED!!!

That's pretty damn nice!

I feel so poor with my old high time tri-pacer & 944.

I am poor because of the TSIO-550X. Silly thing cost well more than a 15k mile 993TT.

Ian

There is a nice article on the Debonair in the July AOPA mag. Beautiful redo on an older aircraft. Some expensive ideas for the future "while you were in there" projects.

I wouldn't mind a tri-pacer. Buy-in is really reasonable. It would cost me more to hangar it than anything. Good little planes for putzing about though.

Lots of awesome planes! I love the IV-P. I haven't got an airplane yet, but flew gliders a bunch in college and plan to get a plan or two eventually. I've already got the porsche and boat so might as well go all the way :D

There are lots of good older aircraft out there. Piper made some great ones, Pacers do look good! I wouldn't hesitate to own something built right after the war. Find something you like the look of just sitting on the ground, you'll spend more time looking at it in the hangar than actually flying it. Just like Porsches.

And if you get involved with owners groups for the aircraft type you find, or with an EAA chapter you'll find lots of related info similar to what's available here on PP. These old aircraft are super simple compared to even the oldest 911 too. I vote to rescue an old aircraft.

I started with a Aeronca Champ and hope to go back one someday. The Champ and a 3 acre airpark property - going back to 1984 - were the initial investment in what I own and fly today. Each aircraft paid for the next, etc... Timing was everything. I don't know if you could repeat that process today, but I'd have no hesitation starting over again as flying is the attraction.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403224694.jpg

While flying the Champ I bought a wrecked Maule M-4 and got it ready to haul the family around when the wife decided it was too cramped, so off it went to a neighbor who is still enjoying it. We went back to Cessna's with a 182 because they're plentiful, easy to work on and you can pick up the phone and order new parts.

Maule before
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403224879.jpg

After
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403224900.jpg

182 After (don't have a before cause it was so ugly)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403224932.jpg

We are at the Auburn WA airport now (S50). (I haven't seen you sir in the motor glider for a while, glad you're still around). Anytime the cars are in front of the hangar someone is inside. Anyone from this group is welcome to stop in.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403226285.jpg

Do any of you guys have a first-hand recommendation for a good IA near KLWD ?

One of my customers moved to that area and I want to be sure he gets a good wrench to keep him flying safe.

Ok, here is a good example, take a 70's Cessna 172, add the Cessna SID (special inspection documents) 26 step aging inspection program and a new engine/prop and you wind up with a $50,000 bill for a $25,000 aircraft. Cost of flying? maybe, cost of flying older certified aircraft? YES.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403485132.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403485156.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403485181.jpg
ether way, its not cheap to fly

It would make it a parts plane if it were mine.

Mine is still in the shop. I haven't gotten any calls so I'm hopping that is a good sign. I made it pretty clear that I need to be informed if anything comes up. I plan to stop by today or tomorrow.

I don't know a single Cessna owner in my area who has done the aging aircraft inspections that Cessna came out with a couple years ago. May I ask why you opted for this? (Maybe you are a commercial operator?) Also, how much of the $50k did that regimen account for?

Yes were part 135, on demand charters. the inspections are not mandatory, but soon will be then there will be a ton of these for sale cheep. FAA made them mandatory for twins and boy, what a mess that turned out to be. just trying to be ahead of the curve, uggggg. Most of the cost is labor, visual inspections mostly but we found some cracks in the engine mounts and corrosion in the wings, typical stuff nothing major.

We'll so far so good. They have had one or two guys working on the annual inspection since Monday. Nothing big found so far, a few cracks in the baffle that they repaired and a wheel bearing and race replaced, an exhaust nut missing. They are checking for cracks on the main spar and the rudder, part of a 500hr check, hopefully those are ok.

Since I'm down in Florida I'm also going to have them do a corrosion protection, they fog everything with something called corrosion X.

I think the rate is around $75hr, which I'm not complaining about, but I hope they start putting everything back together soon.

No offence to gen-av mechanics, but I gotta think working on a small piston plane is pretty straight forward.

I know you have to be quite carefull and thurough, but holy crap are they simple machines. I worked at continental motors for a summer and even the engines are super simple relative to a modern auto.

The small piston aircraft are very simple in construction for sure. Surprisingly though, the simplest engines in design and construction are the turbines, much simpler than the pistons.

Not much to them that's for sure. I'm not sure what you have to do to be an AP/IA, but they have to have that to work and sign off on my plane.

The big difference between A&Ps and your typical auto mechanic (besides A&Ps being paid less) is that they have to put their signature on all their work. If the plane falls out of the sky guess who they are going to want to question.

roger that

Bad news today, they found a hairline crack on the rudder spar. The part to replace is a piece of u-channel aluminum with a couple of nut plates attached, its a couple of feet long. The parts is $1,200, they will have to drill out the old one and then repaint and balance the rudder. That's going to add a bit to the annual cost.

To be an IA, you have to have been an A&P for a minimum of 3 years, and you have to pass a written test. An IA is only required to sign Form 337, and to perform Annual inspections*. Everything else can be done by an A&P
You may want to speak to RJ Dauhn. He's in Florida, and has all the jigs and fixtures to do the job top-notch. And he may be competitive on the price. Doesn't hurt to ask. rjdauhnaircraft@gmail.com http://rjdauhnaircraft.com/


* And a few other uncommon tasks.

That's a good definition of mixed feelings... They found a $1200 issue + labor. But it beats the rudder spar snapping in a catastrophic way in bad weather...

Still, thanks for the thread, I had thoughts of airplane ownership, I see it's kinda like jet skis, better rent... (the old adage "if it flies, floats or f##ks, rent it")

If it makes you fixed wing guys feel any better, this quarter one of my customers had their 5 year / 3000 hr inspection on their Bell 412. I just sent them the final bill.

$365k.

Now that is a pretty big helicopter, but still..... :eek:

Helicopter parts prices are breathtaking. I'll often ask our tech (of our AStar) how much a simple door window, trim molding, etc., costs. Yikes!!

It's all relative to buy in price.... What's an inspection on a 10million dollar jet cost?

a 12 year on a learjet is 39k plus parts and extra labor

Thanks, I'll talk with the IA today. It doesn't look like that difficult a repair, but it won't hurt to ask. The shop that is doing the annual is suppose to do good work and has been here since 1987.

I didn't get another call so I'm hopping that they didn't find any cracks in the main spar. They were getting ready to put on the dye penetrate when I left.

I see plenty of 40yr old or older planes around, I never see an old helicopter.

I probably shouldn't be complaining much. Ive had the plane for two years and have put about 250hrs on. Last years annual was $400, I assisted.

The first year I had the door worked on, new battery, and a strut repaired, around $1200. Last year I had a CDI overhauled and brakes worked on, about $600. So really not to excessive for a plane that was built in 1960.

Now Ive spent quite a bit more than that on the plane, but it was for stuff I wanted to add, not stuff that needed repaired. And I had figured most of that into my buy price.

I figure it cost about $2000 a month for me to fly and own my own plane. So far its been less, but there will be some big expenses from time to time.

They are out there, but probably not as many. The one in my hangar, our Jetranger, is 44 years old. Just finished the annual on Tuesday and flew it some on Wednesday.

Keep in mind that airplanes were around for anearly 40 years before the first commercial helicopter hit the scene - so before ~ 1943 there are no helicopters to find. That and the fact that there were just a LOT more planes built than helicopters, means that it will always be easier to find old-ish planes.

Just found out this morning that we have to replace the engine oil reservoir on the AStar (the one on there is leaking). This is a cylindrical, aluminum tank with two sight glasses and a filler neck with a couple of attachments for oil lines. Holds about four or five liters - doesn't seem too complicated. Similar concept as the oil tank on the 911 but much smaller.

$6000.00 for a factory tank (rebuilt, I believe).

Leaking at the weld? I think there was an AD for that....

Anyway, M-R Airframe in Ontario has repair approval on that item and may be able to repair it for you and provide a Form 1.

I have friends who are senior captains in every major and none own airplanes.

I started flying at 14 and stopped flying 22 year ago....14 years I did nothing but fly or fix them. My degree is in Aviation Technology. I was ate up completely up utill I tried to support a family. Simmons offer me $13500 a year to fly in the right seat of a ****ty shorts 360. I even had to pay for the friggn hat. Early 90's was a hard job market in Aviation and I took a temporary engineering job. 20 years later oh well.......In the end it was like breaking up with your first girlfriend.
Over time I choose cars and racing for my fix, then when you think your over it something shiny flys-- by and I start thinking maybe ......but a little pondering and the feeling fades again. The cost-reward is just not there for me, maybe because I was a commercial pilot/mechanic the job aspect changes your perspective.

With that sad story said...if I came into some serious cash...an airplane or two would be my first purchases..............yes airplanes are expensive, but there are only two kinds of people in this world.......which one are you.

From the sight glass, actually.

just did a mandated software update on a Gulfstream G550 and it came it at a little over a million dollars for a geek to hook up a computer for 20 minutes and load up what turns out to be about 12 new lines of code.
Business Aviation is where the real costs are, many manufacturers use there corporate side to support the transport category side. I replaced a fuel summing unit on a challenger 601 a couple of years ago for 16000 USD, the same unit (and i do mean the same unit, only change is Bombardier calls it a dash two to prevent installation in a corporate CL601) for a Bombardier regional jet is 2500USD. The actual cost is probably 3 or 4 grand and the corporate mark up covers the loss on Transport category.

That's because helicopters are a loose collection of parts flying in formation but would rather be somewhere else.

That said, I always thought the Bell 222 and the Sikorsky S76 were pretty sexy birds.

I currently have an offer in on a 430 for a client. If accepted, I should be going to pick it up in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

Most sexy helicopter Bell ever made, IMO, but doomed to failure due to Bell management. Only ~ 186 made.

Bell 430:
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft_images/1278.jpg
(not the one we have an offer on)

Is that (more or less) a stretched 222/230? I like the color on that one.