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Quote:

Originally Posted by fred cook (Post 8131226)

I didn't think that St. Augustine grass could take cold weather? Even in North Georgia some people have trouble getting it to grow and thrive. It does best in warmer climates like Florida. Your "weed" definitely looks like crabgrass to me. Best to kill it if you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocaholic (Post 8131238)

I'm in N. Georgia, and it grows like crazy. Heck...it'll take root on concrete!

I'm in FL now but use to have a St. Augustine lawn at a house I owned in Dallas... It would go dormant in the winter and come back green in the spring. Was amusing when I first moved to Dallas because, being from Florida, I was use to it being green year round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 8131087)

It kills crabgrass, clover, weeds, other types of grasses like bermuda.

Personally, I love honey and honey bees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred cook (Post 8131226)

In the fall it goes completely dead, brown, looks like it will not come back but it does in the spring..

CrabGrass craig. Stuffs a real pain in the patootie. Take a long time to kill and will come back anywhere your lawn isn't thick. It'll take you a year of treating and pulling to get rid of it. You'll need to keep treating to keep it away.

The leaves shown in the OP photos don't have the characteristic prominent midvein that crabgrass has. Also, crabgrass has a shallow root system and the root system shown appears to be deeper and larger than one would expect. I'm still thinking it is St. Augustinegrass.

It's Dallisgrass. I've been fighting it for over a year and it is really tough. You can almost watch it grow over night!
Dallisgrass Management Guidelines--UC IPM
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403614160.jpg

Looks like the OP is in Michigan. It's crab grass. It will grow vertically for a while, then lay down and spread like a carpet until it kills your lawn. It will go to seed and die at the first freeze. It won't survive winter. You won't have a green lawn next year until the seeds sprout in June.
Best thing to do is pull out the big ones this year. Next spring use a pre-emergence herbicide to keep the seeds from sprouting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty914s (Post 8131259)

Don't ever use this crap on your yard or anywhere for that matter, it is absolute poison.

I do use it and I will continue using it and recommending it.

In checking the MSDS, it recommends wearing long sleeve shirt and pants. Wow, must be pretty serious stuff, over-exposure might make your skin sensitive!!!!!!

All kidding aside you don't know WTF you are talking about, which doesn't surprise me in the least.

Here's the toxicity rating, I work with stuff 100 times worse than this every day.
This stuff is about as dangerous as WD-40.

Quote:

ACUTE ORAL TOXICITY
Oral LD50 (rat): > 1,500 mg/kg
ACUTE DERMAL TOXICITY
Dermal LD50 (rat): > 2,000 mg/kg
ACUTE INHALATION TOXICITY
Inhalation LC50 (rat): > 2.5 mg/L (4-hour)
EYE IRRITANT
Rabbit – Corrosive
SKIN IRRITATION
Rabbit – Slightly irritating
SENSITIZATION
Guinea Pig – Potential sensitizer after repeated exposure to concentrate
MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGGRAVATED BY EXPOSURE: None known.
CARCINOGENICITY:
ACGIH: Not listed
IARC: Not listed
NTP: Not listed
OSHA: Not listed
MUTAGENIC DATA: Little evidence of mutagenic effects during in vivo and in vitro assays.
ADDITIONAL DATA: Not known to cause reproductive or birth defects at normal exposure levels.

If so harmless, why don't you drink a gallon of it, k? I'll pay for the gallon, where do I send funds?

What's the recommendation for Round Up? Would imagine the same.

Turflon Ester is what was sprayed along the street by our POA when we lived in Arizona. Later the same day, the city came around and sprayed the same stuff. Zero communication between the two.
The next day I walked our little dachshund and noticed dead birds and rabbits along the side of the street. That night our doxie began throwing up and shivering. We rushed her to the vet and was told she must have inhaled something toxic earlier.
Her liver toxicity level was at 900. The Doc said if it went up to 1000 she would probably not make it. Several days and $500 later she showed lower numbers and did survive.

Yeah.....good stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R K T (Post 8132086)

Dead birds? Dead rabbit? from turflon ester? Better check your facts.
Are you sure the birds were dead and weren't suffering some sort of mild skin rash?
Are you sure if was turflon ester?

Take a look at the numbers.
Remember, the typical usage is 1 ounce per two gallons of water.

The MSDS results show limited irritation at reasonably high levels.
Unless they were spraying it at 100% concentration at usage levels significantly higher than even when diluted, it would do little more than cause skin irritation.

Unless you are suggesting something out of the movies .......

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403636078.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty914s (Post 8132037)

If so harmless, why don't you drink a gallon of it, k? I'll pay for the gallon, where do I send funds?

What's the recommendation for Round Up? Would imagine the same.

Never heard of or saw an MSDS before, eh?
Seems like you're the one doing the drinking. Get a grip goob!

I think it's K31 Fescue. They used to use that in seed mixes years ago. Stuff will stay green and grow even if the lawn has gone dormant in the heat.

Seriously, I'm sure we have plenty of folks on this forum who know how to read an MSDS.
Like I said, this stuff is safer than WD-40. In fact in the new version they replaced the traces of kerosene with a non-toxic non-HC carrier.

http://guysinpurple.com/documents/msds_TurflonEster.pdf

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403637086.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1403637097.jpg

Just for comparison, here's the MSDS for WD-40, which is BTW MORE hazardous than turflon ester.

Quote:

Symptoms of Overexposure:
Inhalation: High concentrations may cause nasal and respiratory irritation and central nervous system effects such as headache, dizziness and nausea. Intentional abuse may be harmful or fatal.
Skin Contact: Prolonged and/or repeated contact may produce mild irritation and defatting with possible dermatitis.
Eye Contact: Contact may be irritating to eyes. May cause redness and tearing.
Ingestion: This product has low oral toxicity. Swallowing may cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. This product is an aspiration hazard. If swallowed, can enter the lungs and may cause chemical pneumonitis, severe lung damage and death.
Chronic Effects: None expected.
Medical Conditions Aggravated by Exposure: Preexisting eye, skin and respiratory conditions may be aggravated by exposure.
Suspected Cancer Agent:
Yes No X

4 – First Aid Measures
Ingestion (Swallowed): Aspiration Hazard. DO NOT induce vomiting. Call physician, poison control center or the WD-40 Safety Hotline at 1-888-324-7596 immediately.
Eye Contact: Flush thoroughly with water. Remove contact lenses if present after the first 5 minutes and continue flushing for several more minutes. Get medical attention if irritation persists.

Skin Contact: Wash with soap and water. If irritation develops and persists, get medical attention.
Inhalation (Breathing): If irritation is experienced, move to fresh air. Get medical attention if irritation or other symptoms develop and persist.

Wear appropriate protective clothing (see Section 8). Eliminate all sources of ignition and ventilate area. Leaking cans should be placed in a plastic bag or open pail until the pressure has dissipated. Contain and collect liquid with an inert absorbent and place in a container for disposal. Clean spill area thoroughly. Report spills to authorities as required.

Handling: Avoid contact with eyes. Avoid prolonged contact with skin. Avoid breathing vapors or aerosols. Use only with adequate ventilation. Keep away from heat, sparks, pilot lights, hot surfaces and open flames. Unplug electrical tools, motors and appliances before spraying or bringing the can near any source of electricity. Electricity can burn a hole in the can and cause contents to burst into flames. To avoid serious burn injury, do not let the can touch battery terminals, electrical connections on motors or appliances or any other source of electricity. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Keep containers closed when not in use. Keep out of the reach of children. Do not puncture, crush or incinerate containers, even when empty.
Storage: Store in a cool, well-ventilated area, away from incompatible materials Do not store above 120F or in direct sunlight. U.F.C (NFPA 30B) Level 3 Aerosol.

8 – Exposure Controls/Personal Protection
Chemical
Occupational Exposure Limits
Aliphatic Hydrocarbon
1200 mg/m3 TWA (manufacturer recommended)
Petroleum Base Oil
5 mg/m3 TWA, 10 mg/m3 STEL ACGIH TLV
5 mg/m3 TWA OSHA PEL
LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbon
1200 mg/m3 TWA (manufacturer recommended)
Carbon Dioxide
5000 ppm TWA (OSHA/ACGIH), 30,000 ppm STEL (ACGIH)
Non-Hazardous Ingredients
None Established

http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/WD-40-Aerosol-MSDS-282-21-14-29.pdf

Whatever guy, you're wrong.

So I guess it was just a bizarre coincidence that my dog reacted the way she did on the same day that birds and rabbits happened to drop dead along the street that was sprayed.
I have no idea at what percentage they sprayed, but the people that had their pets show the same symptoms as mine demanded to know what was applied to the weeds.
Turflon Ester.

Did some test spots with regular crab grass killer and it seems to be working it says don't use it on st Augustine grass so it must kill that too if that's what it is?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/25/myzytu4a.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 8132029)

.... I work with stuff 100 times worse than this every day...

Yes, we can tell!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgarr (Post 8132805)

Did some test spots with regular crab grass killer and it seems to be working it says don't use it on st Augustine grass so it must kill that too if that's what it is?

Given the prevalence of crab grass in cool season lawns, the chances are very good (like 99%) it is crab grass. You can use killer this year, but crab grass is an annual. Use a pre-emergence herbicide next April and again in June. It will also help with other annual weeds.
Preemergent herbicides - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You won't need to use poison next summer. If it was me, I would pull out the big ones that are pushing out the turf grass this summer and be patient. The first good freeze will kill this year's crop anyway.