Anyone here that could translate about 6 lines of Hungarian for me?

[nzporsche944s2]

I know I could try using an online translater but this is an old document relating to my grandfather from WW2 (dated 1943) and it has been torn in half so I only have the first half of each of the 6 lines.

That's why it would be better to have a "human" translation by someone who could put it in context and perhaps guess the missing second half of each line..

[PetrolBlueSC]

You could look for a local Hungarian restaurant or one that is closely related.

[imcarthur]

I can show it to my wife. She speaks & can read Magyar.

Ian

[Z-man]

Send it to me via PM. I speak fluent Hungarian.

If I can't translate, my folks (who are living with me temporarily) can.

-Z-man

[nzporsche944s2]

Thanks PetrolBlueSC and Z-Man for the offers.

I couldn't attach pics to a PM so I'll put them up here. I've only blocked out the surname because this is in the Public Domain - not to hide anything specifically. If you want to know his name I can PM it.

Here are some photos of the document. It's a really old fragile piece of paper that I found while looking through his things in Hungary last week. It was the date that caught my eye. He was a career soldier with the Hungarian army joining sometime in the late 20's or early 30's and I think his infantry number is on the document (53rd Cavalry?). He fought on the Eastern Front possibly Operation Barbarosa. Was captured by the Russians late in the war but survived the war. He returned home around 1946 and lived a long life - passing away in 1991. The reason this piece of paper is unusual is that my father had told me after the war every single shred of evidence in their house relating to wartime activities was destroyed out of fear such as medals, uniforms, papers etc because of the new Russian occupiers and the hatred they had towards the former Allies of Germany.

It's hard to read but the top of the document has the following which may just be a reference;

M.kir.53.gy.e.tavb.szakasz

Any help is gratefully received in trying to piece my family history together.

[imcarthur]

My wife only had a moment this morning to glance at it - she said she could look again tonight if Zoltan can't help.

I verify that BLANK Joseph Bernard Ilona (by telephone?) . . .
February 25, 1943, has finished (or completed) in time without objections . . .

It seems to be acknowledgment that he completed something, so it might be a pass or similar.

Ian

[Z-man]

M.kir.53.gy.e.tavb.szakasz - "szakasz" can be translated as "section" or "part" So that may be either the document's reference code, or it may be referring back to another document. Or, it coud possibly refer to his military designation (what branch, unit, and section he was from).

Found this regarding M.kir 53:
Hungarian: "A M. kir. 53. honvéd határvadász portyázó osztály..."
Translation: "The M.kir 53 border patrol defense department"
(második zsidótörvény | StoryMap)

tavb can be a shortening of tavbeszelo which the last word on the second line. Tavbeszelo literally translated is "far away speaking device" which is what they called the telephone back then. So this document may be part of a transcript of a phone conversation.

So - onto the documentation:

Centered word: "Igazolv" is probably "Igazolvany" which means certificate or licence.

First line: "Igazolom, hogy ____ Jozsef"
Translation: "I certify that Jozef"

Second line: "Berhart Ilona/az 53 gy.e. tavbeszel"
Translation: Ilona Berhart (during her) phone call with the 53.gy.e (unit? head of the group?)

Third line: "1943 februar 15-ig teljesetitt hadm"
hadm can be the beginning of the word: hadmuvelet which means operation or task.
Translation: "By February 15, 1943, (he) completed the operation..."

Fourth line: "Ezen ido alatt kifogastalan magavis"
magavis can be magaviseles which can mean behavior.
Translation: "During this time his behavior was outstanding (without fault)"

Fifth line:"Az igazolvany nevezett kerelm"
Kerelm can mean applicant.
Translation: "The applicant named in this certificate"

Sixth line: "ido igazolasara hasznalthate fel"
Translation: "can be used to justify the time."

Last line: "Losonc, 1943 evi"
Losonc is a town in Hungary which is now part of Slovakia.
Official Hungarian documents are typically ended which the place and date of where and when the document was created.

Wish there was more to this document that we can delve into.

Hope this helps!
-Z-man.

[Don Ro]

What a forum!

[Jolly Amaranto]

Cool, this reminds me of some old letters found in the personal effects of my late grand uncle. They were written in very old German script that we could not read. We sent copies of the letters to a friend in Germany who worked with some old nurses who could read the old script and transcribe it into modern German. They were very interesting letters.

[jwhcars]

The knowledge that is available on this board is amazing.

[imcarthur]

Zoltan

I showed my wife your translation tonight & she applauds and agrees with your interpretation.

Ian

[nzporsche944s2]

Originally Posted by Z-man

M.kir.53.gy.e.tavb.szakasz - "szakasz" can be translated as "section" or "part" So that may be either the document's reference code, or it may be referring back to another document. Or, it coud possibly refer to his military designation (what branch, unit, and section he was from).

Found this regarding M.kir 53:
Hungaryian: "A M. kir. 53. honvéd határvadász portyázó osztály..."
Translation: "The M.kir 53 border patrol defense department"
(második zsidótörvény | StoryMap)

tavb can be a shortening of tavbeszelo which the last word on the second line. Tavbeszelo literally translated is "far away speaking device" which is what they called the telephone back then. So this document may be part of a transcript of a phone conversation.

So - onto the documentation:

Centered word: "Igazolv" is probably "Igazolvany" which means certificate or licence.

First line: "Igazolom, hogy ____ Jozsef"
Translation: "I certify that Jozef"

Second line: "Berhart Ilona/az 53 gy.e. tavbeszel"
Translation: Ilona Berhart (during her) phone call with the 53.gy.e (unit? head of the group?)

Third line: "1943 februar 15-ig teljesetitt hadm"
hadm can be the beginning of the word: hadmuvelet which means operation or task.
Translation: "By February 15, 1943, (he) completed the operation..."

Fourth line: "Ezen ido alatt kifogastalan magavis"
magavis can be magaviseles which can mean behavior.
Translation: "During this time his behavior was outstanding (without fault)"

Fifth line:"Az igazolvany nevezett kerelm"
Kerelm can mean applicant.
Translation: "The applicant named in this certificate"

Sixth line: "ido igazolasara hasznalthate fel"
Translation: "can be used to justify the time."

Last line: "Losonc, 1943 evi"
Losonc is a town in Hungary which is now part of Slovakia.
Official Hungarian documents are typically ended which the place and date of where and when the document was created.

Wish there was more to this document that we can delve into.

Hope this helps!
-Z-man.

Thanks Z-Man! That is a better translation than I could ever have hoped for!

My Grandfather has been gone more than 20 years now but I miss him. He was an honourable person. He would never speak of the war so my father never passed much onto me about his activities because he didn't know. My father's wartime experiences were through the eyes of a 6 year old and whilst he has a tremendous amount of stories they were all his experiences as a child.

Your translation has brought me closer to my grandfather and at least I now know his unit and by using the date I might be able to dig deeper into what "operation" is referred to.

Their family home is in Eger which is only about 100km from Losonc (now Lucenec in Slovakia as you point out). While the document refers to the 53rd Regiment the stamp at the bottom is from the commander of the 23rd Regiment.
On this page is says that the I/23rd Infantry Regiment was based at Losonc and the 53rd Infantry Regiment was a "Mobilisation Unit" which as you describe could the "Border Patrol Defense Department".

21st Infantry Brigade

It's fascinating stuff.

In my research I found this website which has been helpful to me to try understand the Order of Battle at the time but it would also be very useful for anyone trying to trace individual units during WW2. It covers 43 countries and also by Theatre;

Index of Organizations

Thanks again Z-Man! This place is fantastic!

[nzporsche944s2]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Zoltan

I showed my wife your translation tonight & she applauds and agrees with your interpretation.

Ian

And thanks Ian for volunteering your wife's translation. It is much appreciated

[imcarthur]

Zoltan did the heavy lifting here.

Have you been to Eger, btw? We went for a few days in 2007. The main square: Dobó István Ter.



Ian

[nzporsche944s2]

Ian

I was right there last week! The Circle A below is my parents apartment, and the Circle B below is my uncles apartment. We were staying in my Aunties house which is just to the right of that picture behind the tree "C" (on the over side of the stream)...

It's truly a beautiful place. The entire city centre is being rebuilt now with EU funding and they are rapidly trying to finish it before winter comes. During the construction they are uncovering all sorts of things. In the 2 weeks I was there they found 7 unexploded bombs / mortars from WW2 and Turkish ruins from their occupation in the 1600s so those had to be excavated properly and catalogued

[imcarthur]

We were visiting relatives in the west - in Győr & Sopron. And we stayed in Budapest, of course & then I choose Eger, so we could get away from them for a few days. We walked the town & went to the wine valley on the dorky train etc.

You should recognize this: Senátor Ház Hotel (where we stayed)



My favorite statue in town (and there are a few):



Ian

[74-911]

Originally Posted by jwhcars

The knowledge that is available on this board is amazing.

Not only the knowledge that is available but those who are more than willing to go out of their way to help a fellow pelican.... amazing it is.

[motion]

I like this thread!!!

[imcarthur]

Yeah, Motion. You should put Hungary on your travel list. People tend to ignore as a destination but it is a beautiful country with a lot of history.



Sirok - near Eger.

Ian

[2porscheguy]

Amazing what just happened here! I too like this thread! Plus I need to travel more....how do I become a travelholic, sir Motion?

BTW...a little OT here but...

I did date a hungarian girl back in university, back in the day.......she was very beautiful!

AND.....just dynamite in the sack!!!