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-   -   Tony Stewart, this is not good (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/824701-tony-stewart-not-good.html)

cashflyer 08-14-2014 08:39 AM

SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- The father of the driver run over and killed by Tony Stewart told The Syracuse Post-Standard that "there's no reason for" the crash that led to his son's death.

Kevin Ward Jr. was sent into the wall when his car was bumped by Stewart's in a dirt-track race on Saturday night in Canandaigua. Ward got out of the car and walked onto the track, where he was hit by Stewart.

Kevin Ward Sr. tells the newspaper that "Tony Stewart was the best damn driver by far on the track that night. Why he had to go up as high as he did and hog my son, there's no reason for it."

When the 20-year-old Ward got out of his damaged car, he walked on the track and appeared to point at Stewart. Other cars drove past him, but Stewart's right-rear tire appeared to hit him and drag him along the track.

"Apparently, Tony Stewart was the only one driving out there who didn't see him," Ward told the newspaper.

No charges have been filed against Stewart, but they are still possible.

Ward also addressed that in his interview with the newspaper, saying: "The one person that knows what happened that night is possibly facing 10 years in prison. Is he going to say what he done?"

Stewart could still face criminal charges, even if the three-time NASCAR champion didn't mean to kill Ward, hurt him or even scare him.

"They're going to look at all possibilities here," CBS News legal analyst Jack Ford said. "There could be some type of charges out of here that don't focus on intent."

Ontario County Sheriff Philip Povero, who announced on Tuesday that the investigation is continuing, has said that his initial findings have turned up nothing that would indicate criminal intent in the crash at the Canandaigua Motorsports Park.

But legal experts agree that does not mean Stewart is in the clear.

The NASCAR star could be charged with second-degree manslaughter under New York law if prosecutors believe he "recklessly caused the death of another person," with negligent homicide another possibility, according to criminal law professor Corey Rayburn Yung of the Kansas University School of Law.

"The question over whether someone was reckless is a factual one, and one a prosecutor might let a jury decide," said Yung, who also posts at the Concurring Opinion blog.

On-track confrontations between drivers are becoming more common in auto racing but Stewart has a reputation for being especially short-tempered.

He has been fined three times for his on-track behavior, as well as altercations with reporters, photographers and race officials. Two years ago, Stewart walked onto the track and threw his helmet at another driver he felt had wronged him.

"He's not afraid to battle with other drivers when it comes to his opinions and how he thinks things should be done but when he's in the race car he's extremely talented," said Jeff Gluck, who has covered racing for USA Today for 10 years.

Investigators are looking at everything from the muddy conditions of the track to whether the lights were working and sufficient. Stewart and his team declined CBS News' request for an interview.

Meanwhile, in the wake of Ward's death, NASCAR could issue an edict as early as this weekend's race at Michigan International Speedway that makes it mandatory for drivers to stay in their cars until safety personnel arrive.

Brewerton Speedway and Fulton Speedway, New York dirt tracks under the same management, announced new rules that drivers would be required to stay in their cars during an accident.

"If a driver, for whatever reason, exits a car on the track during a caution period, the race will automatically be placed under a red flag and all cars will come to a complete stop," a news release on the tracks' website says. "A driver may exit a car if requested by a safety crew member or if safety warrants in cases such as a fire. Drivers that exit a car without permission, for whatever reason, are subject to fine and/or suspension at the discretion of track management."

Brad Keselowski, the 2012 Sprint Cup champion, said it could be tough for NASCAR to enforce a similar rule.

"I'm not aware of any rule or law that works without the ability to enforce it," he said. "I don't know how you can enforce a rule like that unless you had a robot on the track to grab the person and put them back in the car. The only way you can enforce it is with a penalty system afterwards. Really, at that point, it's not effective. It's a difficult rule to try to make work."

VaSteve 08-14-2014 09:06 AM

This is all so ludicrous. Whether the cars are under yellow or ree by rules changes is irrelevant. People stepping out and into the path of moving cars is the problem. A red flag won't prevent red mist. I have worked with the flaggers at a DE environment and seen people miss flags.

I have watched a lot of racing and when people think they have gotten wrecked they have often wrecked themselves. Watching the replay is often enlightening.

A persons past actions as a hothead does not make them a murderer. I'm sure we all have things we regret we have done...can that be used against us?

The point about sweeping the gauges and such under caution...good point. The other drivers claim to see Ward. Maybe they did....he moved around a lot once 45 passed and then TS. No driver is expecting people on the track so why look for them?

Two peoples lives are ruined here. Its very sad.

Tervuren 08-14-2014 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intakexhaust (Post 8213447)
^^^Penalty of the night off? That's all? How about a permanent BAN of their race license. And about those of you defending TS and other knucklehead 'oh so professional' drivers.... the intentional tail bumps and turning races into a demo derby is so moronic. That's why I can't stand NASCAR. Boy, they're really great drivers... LOL.

First, you have to understand NASCAR has I think over 100 races per year. If something happens every 2-3 years, that is one in 300 races or so. I've been to lots of races, and have never seen an intentional Demo Derby, fist fight, etc.

Since employing "boys have at it", NASCAR has been one of the cleanest forms of motorsport I have watched. Because the driver's know that if they hit driver B, driver B can retaliate, they don't want to hit the other drivers! In F1, if there is unintentional conctact, the driver that makes it considers it his lucky day, and drives away like nothing happened. In NASCAR, you'll see the guy that shoved someone out of the way - back out of it, and let the car they hit back by again.

Consider the massive amount of laps, large fields, and short laptimes at some of the tracks, its pretty amazing they don't wreck more often.

Baz 08-14-2014 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflyer (Post 8213567)
---snip---

Meanwhile, in the wake of Ward's death, NASCAR could issue an edict as early as this weekend's race at Michigan International Speedway that makes it mandatory for drivers to stay in their cars until safety personnel arrive.

Brewerton Speedway and Fulton Speedway, New York dirt tracks under the same management, announced new rules that drivers would be required to stay in their cars during an accident.

"If a driver, for whatever reason, exits a car on the track during a caution period, the race will automatically be placed under a red flag and all cars will come to a complete stop," a news release on the tracks' website says. "A driver may exit a car if requested by a safety crew member or if safety warrants in cases such as a fire. Drivers that exit a car without permission, for whatever reason, are subject to fine and/or suspension at the discretion of track management."

Brad Keselowski, the 2012 Sprint Cup champion, said it could be tough for NASCAR to enforce a similar rule.

"I'm not aware of any rule or law that works without the ability to enforce it," he said. "I don't know how you can enforce a rule like that unless you had a robot on the track to grab the person and put them back in the car. The only way you can enforce it is with a penalty system afterwards. Really, at that point, it's not effective. It's a difficult rule to try to make work."

Really.......it takes a tragedy like this for these people to realize drivers should stay in their vehicles while the race is on for safety purposes???

And then this knucklehead Keselowski - says it's not enforceable???

To me that speaks volumes about how primitive (and perhaps barbaric) this sport is.

emcon5 08-14-2014 10:26 AM

Brad Keselowski is an idiot. If NASCAR wants to enforce it, they will, and can be pretty brutal if they choose to.

Keselowski: "You can't enforce it."
NASCAR: "5 race suspension, and -300 driver points, actions detrimental to stock car racing"
Keselowski: "I'll just stay in the car then"

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaSteve (Post 8213608)
This is all so ludicrous. Whether the cars are under yellow or ree by rules changes is irrelevant. People stepping out and into the path of moving cars is the problem. A red flag won't prevent red mist. I have worked with the flaggers at a DE environment and seen people miss flags.

Actually, for the sprint cars, I expect it will. For 20+ cars without starters, a red flag is a big pain in the ass, and there will be a lot of pissed off drivers, crew, and fans. They do stupid crap now, because there have been no consequences. Now if someone gets out and causes a 30+ minute goat rope, not only will there be action taken by the organizers, but 19 other pissed off drivers calling them a asshat.

Red flag means STOP. Even if someone misses the flag, they probably won't notice every other car stopping.

And sadly, the only reason this is news, is because it was Tony Stewart. If it had been a local guy that nobody ever heard of, it would have maybe been noted once on the local news and gone. Nobody would be screeching about pressing charges.

matt f 08-14-2014 10:29 AM

Since when would staying in your car, unless their is fire, a NEW rule?

Oh, and Brad, you genius, stating it would be unenforceable.

Plain and simple and non-negotiable/non-appealable.

Get out of your car that is not on fire, you AND your teammates are suspended for the next race.
Driver gets demoted 2 places in the Chase and fined.
Owner gets fined heavily. Not the usual $50k but make it a cool Million so it at least leaves a mark.

I know, pipe dream.
Until penalties are true and severe, this crap will go on.

Matt

matt f 08-14-2014 10:30 AM

emcon5 beat me to similar idea.

Now back to the DOG thread to lower BP!

Matt

widgeon13 08-14-2014 10:31 AM

NASCAR drivers bunch of prima donnas

sand_man 08-14-2014 10:49 AM

Quote:

I'm not aware of any rule or law that works without the ability to enforce it," he said. "I don't know how you can enforce a rule like that unless you had a robot on the track to grab the person and put them back in the car.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1408042123.jpg

Tervuren 08-14-2014 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz (Post 8213728)
Really.......it takes a tragedy like this for these people to realize drivers should stay in their vehicles while the race is on for safety purposes???

And then this knucklehead Keselowski - says it's not enforceable???

To me that speaks volumes about how primitive (and perhaps barbaric) this sport is.

Kes is one of the most safety conscious guys out there. I take his wordto mean that no matter what rules you make - a rule doesn't stop a driver from getting out of the car. Kes is stating to receive a penalty - you have to live after the fact, there is nothing to keep the driver in the car if they are bent on getting out and raising hell. Fact is, when red mist hits - penalty's simply will not be a deterrent. Ward tried to hit Tony and misjudged physics and paid with his life. That didn't deter Ward.

This is similar to the fact that murders still happen with illegal weapons.

If you pull bits of a quote out of nowhere, it can be easy to misconceive the intent. Knowing Brad, I think his words reflect more on the fact that a rule does nothing to prevent an action from taking place - it only supplies penalties afterwards.

intakexhaust 08-14-2014 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervuren (Post 8213638)
I've been to lots of races, and have never seen an intentional Demo Derby, fist fight, etc.Since employing "boys have at it", NASCAR has been one of the cleanest forms of motorsport I have watched. Because the driver's know that if they hit driver B, driver B can retaliate, they don't want to hit the other drivers!
Consider the massive amount of laps, large fields, and short laptimes at some of the tracks, its pretty amazing they don't wreck more often.

Clean racing? Ahhh, OK. Search youboob for NASCAR. How many hours of draft bump's and demo derby time would you like?

And if you want to call any of them un-intentional, then why is it now the sport of CREW members AND teams to slug it out in the pits? What are they so upset about if its just a racing incident? Ridiculous. You mean as a NASCAR fan you've never seen this on TV highlight's or news? Seriously?

I'll agree with you and maybe I don't understand it. Bore's me like baseball. No way would I go out of my way and purchase a ticket and its not on our TV at home. The few Sprint Cup and Nationwide races attended were gratuitous tick's. I don't recall what race but there were so many yellows from wrecks that I took a few nap's. Like baseball, balance a cold Busch on the gut and watch the yahoo's.

Sorry about the kid and the loss for family and friends but maybe they could do something good for the future. Accept what he did WRONG but dump on these series promoters to end the shenanigan's.

VaSteve 08-14-2014 11:17 AM

+1 Turuven....penalties only hurt if you give a **** to begin with.

+1 emcon....if this was a no name it would be no story. Even if the driver was 100x the hot head TS is.

One point on flagging....at a circle like that it'd be hard to go immediate red. At WG even, they go yellow first. At our PCA DEs we can go immediate red. Seen that video of the exploding deer? How many thanks times did the filming driver try to get out of his car? I was working the event that day...had I known about that I would have had to talk to him.

ZOA NOM 08-14-2014 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VINMAN (Post 8213274)
Zoa, did Tony steal your prom date or something?? You really seem to want to hang him based on a crappy video.



.


No, Vinman, I just see the video very clearly. i race with a group of drivers who respect each other, who would never think of putting each other in danger unnecessarily, and TS represents the worst in the sport.

I'm disgusted by what I saw and heard on the video, and I'll never be convinced that TS didnt hit the throttle to try and scare the kid.

That kind of driving and attitude is weeded out pretty quickly in the Porsche Racing Challenge in NorCal.

emcon5 08-14-2014 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervuren (Post 8213793)
Kes is one of the most safety conscious guys out there. I take his wordto mean that no matter what rules you make - a rule doesn't stop a driver from getting out of the car. Kes is stating to receive a penalty - you have to live after the fact, there is nothing to keep the driver in the car if they are bent on getting out and raising hell. Fact is, when red mist hits - penalty's simply will not be a deterrent.

If that is what he meant, and it makes sense, then he is right. However, you see a couple guys get sodomized by NASCAR or their local sanctioning body, the culture that has condoned acting like a jackass for years will shift.

Most people have been really pissed off and wanted to punch some asshat who desperately deserved it. Yet not that many people actually do outside of a Hockey game. Why not? Because even pissed off people know that actions have consequences.

You think thes clowns would pull this crap if they thought they would end up in jail?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35QYLZn-iDE

VaSteve 08-14-2014 11:31 AM

Here is a little more cut and dried example of what not to do....being told not to do...and doing it anyhow. Busch was parked for the weekend and lost that sponsor. I think he didn't race trucks the rest of the season ...I don't recall...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SfPt5rrwI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Macroni 08-14-2014 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaSteve (Post 8213811)

....if this was a no name it would be no story.

You are right..... based upon what I saw manslaughter charges would be filed.........


It is a good thing the media is busy this week w/ St Louis riots, Robin W, Russians supplying rebels and US sending troops to Iraq.....

intakexhaust 08-14-2014 11:42 AM

'nuff said.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nascar+crew+fights

VaSteve 08-14-2014 11:50 AM

Quote:

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....if this was a no name it would be no story.</div>
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It is a good thing the media is busy this week w/ St Louis riots, Robin W, Russians supplying rebels and US sending troops to Iraq.....

I'm not sure I agree that MS charges would be filed. I think it would be much like the original result of the TM/GZ situation. A quick investigation and then done. And nobody would be talking about it.

Now they have to be more careful since the world is watching....its a prominent guy with a "history". There's not a lot of room to screw it up.

Macroni 08-14-2014 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaSteve (Post 8213871)

Now they have to be more careful since the world is watching....its a prominent guy with a "history". There's not a lot of room to screw it up.

I agree 100%

URY914 08-14-2014 02:50 PM

This is not meant for anyone in particular but I wish people would stop posting "if he had just stayed in his car......"

As if we all haven't figured that out already Capt. Obvious. :mad:


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