This oil will come from Canada.

No, it will be sold on the international market at market rates.


Absolutely not. The oil is from Canada, not a domestic supplier. It will be sold on the market at market rates. American consumers have to compete with the rest of the world for this oil


The US is poised to have an oil surplus. We don't need any foreign suppliers to make us independent of foreign oil.


It takes the US government granting the right of eminent domain to a foreign company to seize the land of US landowners. This is the part I find so perplexing about the Keystone business. Conservatives, who are usually all about individual rights, property rights, and the Constitution, are all in favor of letting a foreign company come into the United States, identify land they want to control, and take it for their own purposes against the wishes of the land owners. Conservatives have aligned themselves with foreign companies against sovereign United States citizens. It's just mind boggling.

One of my biggest customers is a contractor that is hired out to mow and maintain pipeline right-of-ways for Colonial, Cardinal, and Dixie. One of his contracts is to mow the Colonial Pipeline tank farm near Greensboro NC. Their outfit has six crews of five guys each, plus two drivers for the two road tractors and low-boys to haul equipment. They go as far south as Agusta GA, and north to central Virginia.

They get pretty good compensation for their work, but the raw cost of DOING the work is hefty, I'm sure.

Joey, the owner's son, and ascendant chief officer told me about running pigs for Dixie; He said it's kinda fun to be riding an ATV on a terraced right-of-way and get paid for it. Other than that, it's just work.

I'm sure a lot of jobs would come from maintaining the pipeline. These would be jobs that aren't offered individually by the company that operates the pipeline, but ones that get contracted out to other companies that make that task their specialty.

You're just itching to take this to PARF, aren't ya?

I remember someone once telling me that pretty much all gasoline came from the same place. It was a matter of the additives that made it different. Sammy?

In 2013, we produced 3.7B barrels, we imported 3.6B barrels and we exported 1.3B barrels. So, no.

Supply and Disposition of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

According to other sources, Keystone Pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Geopolitical issues:

"However, an independent study conducted by the Cornell ILR Global Labor Institute refers to some studies (e.g. a 2011 study by Danielle Droitsch of Pembina Institute) according to which "a good portion of the oil that will gush down the KXL will probably end up being finally consumed beyond the territorial United States""

And that makes sense. Why otherwise would that Canadian crude be piped to the gulf and not be refined in the center of the US?

but Red, that would mean someone broke the law because it is illegal to export oil no?

Please look at your source

1. Wiki quoting:
2. Cornell's Global LABOR institute quoting:
3. Pembina - a "Green" group.

Use of word like "gush" are inflammatory.

To answer your question:

Several refineries in Houston are designed to accept very heavy crude oil, like that from Venezuela. The extracted oil from Canada is similar. There has been a reduction in the flow of oil from Venezuela. This will replace some of that flow. The refineries in other parts of the country cannot process these oils.

Again see the US Government numbers I posted from US Government data. We presently process just under 7B barrels a year. We use about 5.7B barrels a year. What happens to the rest? It is exported refined products. We make money by refining the oil.

So, why do this? To make money. The net price (crude cost plus transportation) will be lower than oil imported by ship. So this may allow the price of the produced products to be lower.

No. We cannot export the oil that comes out of the ground in the US. But if we import and refine more than we need, we can export up to the amount we import. KXL will really only change WHERE we import the oil.

this...exactly!!

The problem with the Xl pipeline is that the Canadians are too cheap to build a pipeline for their oil exports to their coasts.

There are two pipelines in Canada currently in the planning stages. One headed west to export crude to Asian markets and the other east to supply Canadian owned refineries.

The XL is a joint Canadian American venture, (I thought) I always thought that other petroleum products from other stages in the pipeline would "join the flow" so to speak. Much of it coming from American resources.

This non political question the OP tendered has quickly taken a turn.....

From my experience (HDD field) most pipeline is buried where temperature and soil conditions allow it.

To be honest (and political....sorry OP) I am not sure I want the American end of the pipeline approved or not.

I don't think it's PARFy to identify who is on what side.
It puzzles me that the same people who were up in arms over the BLM collecting its rent from that Bundy guy's cattle ranch are apparently OK with a foreign company coming to the US and taking legally owned land from US citizens by eminent domain.

BTW.... Its been operational to the point that it has been used since 2010 to import over 550 million barrels of oil into the USA already.
And I believe the section between Cushing Oklahoma and the Texas golf has also been in operation for some time now. This whole uproar is really only about portions of the pipeline. Good healthy debate on merits vs liabilities is always valuable.

I wonder how many people are even aware the Enbridge/Exxon Alberta Clipper pipeline also moves about 400,000 barrels of Alberta oil sands crude into the states daily?

And many trains with long strings of tanker cars rolling south every day.

The land isn't "taken", it's leased. Property owners are compensated for the right of way.
There are some restrictions on the property owners regarding surface useage, but they aren't onerous. You can still grow crops over the right of way, for example.
You can't grow trees.
You can't erect permanent structures.
You can walk over it any time you want. You can drive or graze cattle over it. You can hunt over it, or grant hunting leases over it.
You cannot restrict the pipeline company's access. You can continue to post your property as before.
Rights of way have many unseen benefits to wildlife. They can create nesting and forage areas where none existed before. Deer in heavily wooded areas love pipelines as they are typically overplanted with rye or other "browse".

I have numerous pipelines on my property (Louisiana). Some have been there for decades.
We have never had any problems with any of the operators.

Sand oil is difficult to refine. Some of the gulf coast refineries were specially built to handle such petroleum. No "middle of the country" refinery can handle it. Other countries contract with the gulf refineries to refine their oil, the aforementioned Venesuela, for example.

There hasn't been a new refinery built in the U.S. anywhere since the early '80s. My father sold a great deal of the equipment used in the last build.

Oil and natural gas paid for everything I have enjoyed in my life: Houses, food, autos, education, health care, etc., etc. My children and grandchildren continue to benefit from this industry.
It's how I make my living. I enjoy providing America with clean, safe, affordable, abundant and domestic energy.

You may be surprised to learn that very nearly everything in your life is dripping in oil.
It is the world we have made for ourselves. If you know of a truly better alternative, there are many in the industry that would like to talk to you...

If you have a position in a mutual fund, you are invested in the oil and gas industry. You are profiting from it.

I unashamedly admit my involvement in this business. The quality of life of humans worldwide has been advanced by it.

The bottle for the water you incessantly drink is made from it. BTW, cut that out! You're cluttering up the landfills with it!! Get a pitcher, for crypes sake!! (Rant off).

Don't get me all wrong here, as I am a tree-hugger as well. I have a 1300 acres CO2 filter I operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It has been in operation for more than 100 years. With wisdom and love from my children, etc. it will continue to operate in perpetuity.

What have you done for the environment lately??

Carter

Canadian oil is NOT DOMESTIC OIL
as far as export laws
but would be exported
as that is why ''they'' want the pipeline

It doesn't come from the same place, there are 6 refineries in the Long Beach Ca. area and about 4 or 5 in the bay area. But It's all made the same way.

With today's tight regulations and controls, gasoline quality and make-up does not vary much at all except from region to region (California has its own blend) so yes, it is safe to say that gasoline is gasoline and the only difference ina specific region is the slight bit oif additives (less than an ounce per gallon). The additives also do not vary much at all. All the additives have to meet strict standards.
If one company came up with additives that worked significantly better than others, the state of California would mandate that EVERYONE use it. Mostly it's just marketing.
I have a friend who is convinced that chevron gas is the best. I told him that instead of spending an extra 30 cents/gal at the pump, he could go to a FLAPS and buy a $4 bottle of tecron and pour a couple of capfuls into his tank at every fill-up. That bottle would last him many years.

Refiners sometimes buy and sell on the wholesale and spot market, so it is very possible that gasoline at a mobil station was made by a different company but since it's all the same stuff it really doesn't matter.

As an example: I work at the biggest refinery west of Tejas with production of about 16 million galls a day of gasoline, diesel and jet fuel.
We supply the gasoline for all the ARCO stations, some Tesoro stations, about 650 shell stations, all USA stations, all thrifty stations, and some exxon and mobil stations.
But if our rerfinery was down for maintenance and we weren't producing enough to cover those commitments, we would simply but the fuel from a competitor.

Now having said all that, gasoline is the same WHEN IT'S MADE AND SHIPPED. But it does break down over time.

So if a station didn't move very much fuel and that gasoline sat in his tanks for a couple months, it'd be crappier than the new stuff. It looses about an octane point per month and tends to varnish and gum up as the fuel oxidizes over time.
The additives are 'sposed to control that but it doan work forever.

So here's how i do it:
I only buy as octane as I need, never buy premium unless you really need premium. I but ARCO gas because it's the cheapest and they move the most volume, (newest gas).
I avoid buying gas from hole-in-the-wall stations in the desert etc. The busier the better.

Guys, there is a difference between crude oil and the finished refined products we get from crude oil.

One is black and stinky, the others make our vehicles move.

It is illegal to export domestic crude. It is not illegal to export domestically refined fuels.
To say that some other country may end up consuming it means they'll buy the finished fuels and use them.
That will be good for the consumer as that drives down prices. We don't export unless we have excess supply or the domestic price is so low it makes sense to export it.

And ya might wanna check out the refining capacity in the middle of the US vs. the capacity in the gulf states.

If the gulf states capacity was a gallon, the midwest capacity would be a drop.

BTW, as far as partisanship goes, some folks are against the pipeline because their politicians tell them to be against it. They hear lies and repeat them about how it would be bad for consumers and good for corporats (whatever the heck that is).
Nothing could be further from the truth but once these people get programmed there is no sense trying to 'splain it to them.
The only people that get helped from stopping the pipeline are warren buffett and all the democrat politicians on his payroll.
He owns the railroad companies and all those tanker cars moving the oil, and he's making a huge fortune.

Others support the pipeline because it's a good idea.

I support it because it will be good for our country, even though it will significantly hurt the company i work for.

We spent a ton of money building a rail terminal in orey-gone to get that bakken crude to the west coast and are in the process of getting permits to build another larger terminal in Washington.
If the pipeline is completed the discount on that crude will go away and make those terminals questionable financially.

Even though it will cost my company and cost me personally as a sharerholder and employee, I still support it because it's the right thing to do.