Recurring plumbing issue with drain backing up.... any ideas?
 

Not sure where to turn with this. I've exhausted my handyman skills, but am trying to avoid calling a plumber.

We have a single level house. the drain system is pretty much in the shape of a "Y" with one branch coming from the kitchen and one coming from the master bath. The hall bathroom is at the intersection of the other two branches. The third leg goes out to the sewer, and the laundry is off of that part.

A month or so ago we started hearing gurgling at the kitchen sink. Then, when we run a lot of water the kitchen sink will back up. Running the disposal while holding the drain down on the other side will push the water through, but it tends to gurgle and back flow into the sink once the disposal is turned off.

I've run a 50' snake through every possible location in the house. Theoretically, it the snake has been through every inch of the drain line. I've run it from the kitchen, from the hall bath, from the master bath, from the laundry and from the outside cleanouts in the yard.

After snaking the entire system, the drain was still acting the same. My last ditch effort was to run water in the kitchen until it backed up, wait for the level to go down then quickly pull the trap and use one of the expandable bladders to pressurize the line. I thought that worked. We didn't notice any problems for a couple of weeks, but now it's backing up just like before. Not sure what else to do. I'm afraid a plumber will just snake the lines (as I've already done).

I haven't checked to roof vents. Based on what's happening, could a clogged vent even cause this? We don't have any trees near our house so I know it's not filled with leaves. Dead bird, maybe?

Any ideas?

Vent is a possibility.

My guess is the main out to the sewer or something at the sewer itself.

We recently got a notice from our HOA directed at one specific subdivision, not ours.

It seems they regularly inspect the sewers and this particular subdivisions sewers have had to be cleaned far more often than any others due to excessive grease build up.

Seems like someone is eating a lot of bacon and dumping the fat down the sink.

Like SM said, snake your vents. That might be where the problem lies.

Any trees around where your line runs to the sewer? Roots can be a real problem.

Sounds like a vent.

Check the vents and if that doesn't do anything it's camera time.

My first thought was a vent as well, and that one is easy, just get on the roof and snake it out, you should not run into anything but if you do you have found your issue. Do keep in mind that vents do not have to follow the same rules as the wet lines so there may be a series of fittings you cant get through with your snake. should this b the case try flushing your vent out with a garden hose.

I hate plumbing problems but will do almost anything to keep from calling a plumber.
But i had to call one and spend a grand last Tuesday on a drain.
Best grand I ever spent, I woulda still been fighting that problem and would have a hole in the side of the house by now.

There's a time to fight it, and a time to make the call. The hardest part is finding a plumber you can trust.
If you ever do that yer fortunate, they're good as gold.

I'd think only a slow draining would result from venting issues.
The active backing up sounds more like a main unless the roof vent is vacuum sealed.

Any trees growing closer than a hundred feet to an unsealed main will sneak 10-20ft of roots into that nice continuous flow of nutrient water.
They can squeeze through 1/4 inch.

You can rent cutting machines to bust them up.
There are different tips for the machines.
I think he used the oval all-purpose one. Slow gentle speed and a lot of pushing at first.

But if the problem is the main, why isn't it first coming out of the shower first? (3 feet lower than the sink)

FWIW: I had a basement backup and used a 50ft snake with no results. Called rotorooter. The guy found the problem at the last 10 feet of pipe next to the city hookup connection. He had experience with the cutting machine and could feel when it was binding and where. Back and forth and yanking back. He had technique.
Got a video camera inspection done as well. Total was about $500 or so. It turned out there was a small bubble in the junk Orangeburg pipe just big enough to collect the two rolls of daily toilet paper.

I had a similar problem. Could not snake it out manually so that it was a lasting fix. Rented a larger ,powered version from Home Depot and it worked like a charm.

You could have pushed the snake thru the blockage.

I bought a commercial machine a couple years ago because of the 60' Elm I my yard who's roots were blocking the line. It would happen every couple years and usually on a Sunday. What I paid for the machine I recouped in 4 years. Plus my neibour borrowed it along with my son to do their drains.

A buddy says his drain is backing up. So I load the machine up and take it over to his place. I start auguring and push it out the full 75' with no change in the draining. I do this a couple times and can't figure out what's up. Run the water and it slowly backs up to come out the floor drain.

He ends up calling a rotor rooter type guy for $175. The pro tells him the blockage (terry towel cloth threads) was 10' from the floor opening and he said I probably pushed the cutter head thru the blockage and never felt it.

This also was my first thought when I read the problem.


Plumbers (drainlayers actually) put an auger down and it chops up the tree roots or whatever is the problem. It seems to fix it for a few years. I've got a guy who comes around and I just give him $100 cash so he doesn't have to do the paperwork ;) and the problem is gone for a few more years.

I don't think Cacti have very deep roots... ;)

My thought too... Would be best to get a camera out to check things out if you are banging your head against the wall.

Gurgling? Sounds like a vent. Run your snake through it and see if it clears out. If not, call the plumber. They can tell you if its roots down stream. At least you know it isn't the vent unless a whole bunch of things are being vented through the same vent pipe. If nothing is broken, you really don't need to spend the money on the camera. There's a time and place for them. This doesn't sound like its that time. I always say this to people, how did we do this without cameras years ago? How old is the house and how long has this been happening?

We were doing some work on this house and the owner kept complaining about a slow drain and backup on the lower floor shower. He called the plumber out so it clears only I found out that it was draining really slow. He thought it was normal. The plumber took him for a ride because I called my plumber to see about the slow drain and we found out the blockage was about 10 feet away. He couldn't clear it now matter how he tried. So we ran the camera only to find out the drain was completely blocked with very little hole for the water to flow through. We pulled out a freaking tree (root actually) that ran along the inside the 4" abs drain for about 15'. So, don't spend you money. Go through the process of elimination first is my opinion.

Lee, I can't remember if you did this yet, but after you check your vents run your snake from your outside clean out to the street and also into your house.

I ran it through both cleanouts - the one toward the house and the one toward the street.

Pretty sure the snakes's been through every inch of drain line in my house. Did it multiple times on the kitchen line.

vents.

and i think i paid a plumber $175 to run a camera down all my drains. i found a section that had settled so the water had to move down and UP a "dip". when we found the partially collapsed section and a tree root, i GULPED and wrote a check. the best thing of the video was that my connection to the city main was beautiful.

i already had all my vents cleaned. now with a TOTO toilet, i could flush a fat hamster treading water. my neighborhood, everyone DIY'd the sewer install when they closed up their septic tanks. nobody read a code book.

Do you know what type of pipe was used for your drain lines? PVC, Cast iron, etc?

I had almost exactly the same problem when I lived in Albuquerque. I had always been able to snake problems out before. Finally got sick of messing with it and rented a commercial machine. Never had a problem again. You need to use something like this for tough problems:
Drain Cleaner 100' X 3/4"

The smaller, more flexible snakes will sometime ball up or turn before the clog (into a vent or another branch). Especially the nonpowered ones.

Your system is kind of like a gas can for your lawnmower, if you don't open the small vent hole, the fuel will gurgle and flow roughly out the spout. Open up the vent hole and the fuel flows evenly and forcefully......check your vents !

Did I mention I hate plumbing problems? Just tried to do a load of laundry.
Evidently when he solved the other problems it backed up the drain from the washing machine.
No warranty claim, couldn't prove one was related to the other several days later.

Water all over the garage, me getting ready to haul out the 50' snake from harbor freight.

Still no luck? I'd offer to help, but the last time I tried to do plumbing I got to cut a hole in the wall after I flooded the house... Not sure you want me nearby! SmileWavy

Slightly unrelated, but at a recent office meeting someone was mentioning quite a few houses down in your area having issues with the line from the meter to the house leaking under the line. Seems during the time they built lots of those houses they used polybutylene and its not holding.

I went over to my wife's rental house one time to address a clogged drain issue. Right next to the kitchen sink was a huge pan of bacon grease. They were running it down the drain, and when it stopped flowing, it became my problem.

Lee, I do not know how you make a living but I'm sure you get paid for your knowledge and experience

We get paid for our knowledge and experience also


ps it is not a venting issue lol

If it's not tree roots, cast iron peeling internally, or plastic cracking, another sewer main problem could be loss of slope due to ground settling (such as from driving a vehicle over wet ground).
A pro camera scope will determine the condition and fix.

First remove and clean the P-trap and snake directly into the wall. Sink & Drain Plumbing | HomeTips

That sink is the only drain affected in the house?

I use only hot water, detergent, and a big plunger.
No need to have chemicals damage the piping.

And your point is? :confused:

Did clean the P-trap and snaked it in the wall directly behind the kitchen sink a couple of times.

Yep... just the kitchen sink. If a lot of water has been run through the kitchen sink and then the master shower is used, the kitchen sink with gurgle loudly.

As Sidney mentioned, roots are extremely unlikely as there's little vegetation here in the desert.

Even snaking can leave a lot of crud in the pipes. Greasy hairballs can stick where the vents jion the drains and drive you crazy. We finally solved a similar problem by buying a drain cleaning attachment for the pressure washer. It's a thin hose with radial nozzles that really cleans out the pipes. You need to plan carefully to avoid a mess. Start as far downstream as possible and work back so everything can drain.
regards,
Phil

My point is obvious, you have been working at this problem for weeks and can't come to a solution
99% of the tips you are getting from this thread are useless and a waste of time
When you're ready to throw in the towel and call a plumber I'm sure you will be back in service in an hr or two

I'm sorry I'm not trying to be rude I just get frustrated at threads like this cause people don't understand that you can't really diagnose these problems over the Internet

And we aren't all mechanics, yet this forum exists..... Same thing.

I will the first to tell you that I am no expert in the building trade, but are learning things daily. Lee is asking to see if there are any other tricks to solve his issue. I know it isn't possible unless we see it but coming from someone who does this daily sure would help. Hell, I like to learn if you got something, let us know. Judging from your last statement, and I am sure I am wrong about you, but don't be a bitter old tradesmen. There are plenty of them around. If the OP was one of the few "Know it all" around here, then I would expect that but Lee isn't one of those guys.

Last year I was tearing my hair out trying to find out an issue with the computer controlled home automation BS and had to ask at one of the forms because my electrician who does this for me was on vacation for two weeks. The couple of guys gave me the same bull siht about hiring someone lic. and not to DIY because they feel the brotherhood of azzholes are losing secrets, business, or money due to the information age or whatever the fook it was. Oh yeah, these guys were back east somewhere. :rolleyes: I'd be the first to show you guys or anyone, including my fellow contractors my how to tricks.

This probably isn't it, but a long time ago I had a house that had cast iron pipe. The sink drain started backing up. I ran a snake down it several times which didn't make any difference. Finally one day the sink quit draining or would drain really slowly. I ran a snake to a certain point & it wouldn't pass through anymore. What had happened was hard, scaly deposits had built up inside the pipe over the years and finally choked it off. I figured out approximately where the stoppage started and cut out a section of pipe (raised floor construction) & saw what had happened. I cut the pipe until I got past the stoppage and ran a snake down the rest of the line which seemed to be OK. I replaced that part of the line (with ABS) and things worked fine from then on. To tell the truth, I'd seriously consider Justin's solution at this point.

(layman advice/WAG for another pelican)
I'm thinking the main is ok.
Shower drains fine. No problems there.

There is a clog on the kitchen side of the "Y". Hard grease/food/toy train/etc.
That section fills up with water.
When the shower side is used, the draining flow creates a vacuum on the other split.
This pulls sink water through the clog. Hence the gurgling sound.

Pelican is a "do it yourself" oriented community. When I over-revved my engine on the track (years before you signed up here), a group of guys encouraged me to tear into it myself. Not only that, but a band of them showed up to help. People would drop by while I was in the middle of it just to see how it was going.

When I had valve/piston interference issues after a dozen attempts at timing the valves, JohnWalker (a Porsche mechanic) asked me contact him directly to discuss the problem. He offered a solution that no one else did and it worked.

NEVER during this month long process did anyone suggest that I should hang it up and turn it over to a professional.

Having successfully rebuilt a Porsche 911 engine, I personally find it very hard to give up and call someone for something like a partially clogged pipe. Would I design/install plumbing in a new house? Nope! Work on an intermittent clog issue until I've exhausted every possible fix? You betcha! SmileWavy

^^^ Amen, Brother!
It's precisely why I come here. The depth and breadth of knowledge shared here never ceases to amaze me.

I would also focus efforts on sink to the first junction.

Yes, we can. And we do it quite often. On a very wide range of topics.

But we'll also call in professionals from time to time.

Well, me and my snakes hit it again this afternoon. It's running free now! I did snake the vent. Felt like I hit something pretty far down. Don't know if it was a bend or dead rat. Eventually, got the snake further into the system. Ran just a couple of gallons in the kitchen sink and it immediately backed up. Snaked it again from the outside clean out and hit a serious road block about 15 feet in. Spun it, push it, spun it, pushed it and couldn't seem to get through.

Pulled the snake out and found the end clogged with a blob of amazingly firm and stinky goo. Ran the smaller snake in and hit the road block at the same point. The small snake has the crank on the housing so it can be spun pretty fast. Once I got through with the smaller one I went back to the big snake. It stopped at the same point, but after ramming it a few times it broke through. I was encouraged when I could hear the backed up water start to drain out. Ran the full 50' through a couple of times. Ran hot water from the kitchen for 10 minutes or so with no back up. Flushed all the toilets in case any blobs are hanging out down the line.

So, for now, all is well!

Now, just finish the job and run that snake through all the p traps and get all the hair or whatever is in there. I like to use a little acid to burn through all the nasty goo in there. Let it sit for 5 minutes and flush with water. I usually fill the sink pull the pup up and let it rip. Glad you got it done.

Cleaned them all out the first time I worked on it. Hopefully I'm done messing with plumbong for a while.