Maybe buhing a new Golf, gas or TDI

[BeyGon]

My wife's Golf is a 2010, it was the top of the line right below the GTI. It's been a very good car, we get 35mph on the road and it's comfortable. One of the few cars she has gotten I would think about keeping when she gets a new one.
It's five years old and has 110,000 miles but is still in good shape. I actually like driving it.
We've been looking at the new 2015 models. The SEl with nav and bixenon lights, auto, leatherette interior.
Now that we are close I started looking at the TDIs. They are a couple grand more, I have never thought about them because I thought the extra to buy it would take too long to make a break even.
What do the diesel owners say?

OK, before anyone else comments, I see my mistake in the title. BUYING a new car.

[fastfredracing]

No long term experience,but I was really impressed with the torque of the last tdi I drove. It pulled like my truck .

[pavulon]

The TDI's are fun to drive. Had one with a DSG and really enjoyed it.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I had a Golf TDI a few years back. 2010 I think. It was nice...but I have a 6-speed GTI now and it blows the TDI out of the water. Nice leather interior and gets 32mpg combined. Can't really beat that.

[BeyGon]

If it was for me it would be a Red GTI Gas, but my wife really doesn't need a GTI and I very seldom drive her car. She puts a lot of miles on her car, and we usually use it for any trips, Arizona three times last year, Oregon once, SanFran and above twice plus her driving all over SoCal. AND, she needs Nav, I'm not sure how she gets around.
Just wondering, she/we put 20,000 miles a year on it so would diesel be worth it.

[cabmandone]

My take is, with diesel running about .50 per gallon more than gas + plus the additional upfront cost for the diesel = buy the gasser and be happy with mid 30's mpg. I don't think you can gain enough mpg (they're rated in the mid 40's right?) to offset the additional cost for the fuel and the engine.

If you're getting 35 mpg at a nat'l average of 2.45 for premium gas you'd spend about $1400 on gas annually based on 20K per year
If you get 49 mpg with the TDI at nat'l average of 2.84 for diesel you'd spend about $1160 for diesel annyally based on 20K per year

I guess at today's prices you'd be pretty close so it depends on what the real increase in price is from the gas to the diesel. If everything stayed about the same in fuel cost per gallon difference you'd save about $1200 over 5 years of ownership so it depends on how long you'd keep it.

Keep in mind it's still a little early for me to be doing math so use my numbers at your own risk.

[Steve Carlton]

If you plug in a 2010 Golf 2-door automatic with moonroof, heated seats, and alloy wheels into blue book, you get around $9,000 for high book. Do the same for a TDi and you get $12,200, a difference of $3,200.

Let's say the gas Golf averages 32mpg and the TDi 38mpg (although I think the TDi tends to do better than EPA ratings and yours would have to be on the highway a lot as well). Over 5 years, let's say gas is $3.50/gal and diesel is $4.00/gal. Over 100,000 miles, the gas Golf would cost $10,937 and the TDi $10,526, virtually the same.

My gut says the diesel might deliver a bigger difference in fuel economy and maybe diesel won't continue to be 50 cents/gallon more. I think you'll come out ahead on resale value when you go to sell a 100,000 mile diesel vs gas, getting closer to high book on a diesel vs a gas engine, especially if fuel is expensive when you go to sell. I think people are less afraid of higher mile diesels than gas cars.

I think you'll more than get your money back on a diesel. The question is which model would your wife rather drive. Diesel isn't as easy to find as gas and it's nastier to pump into the car. Then the question is what kind of bottom-line deal can you really get on a gas and diesel Golf? I'd highly recommend factoring in a 100K-120K extended warranty into the deal...

[pavulon]

Have you and/or your wife driven a TDI? If she doesn't like the unexpected push of low RPM torque, it may be a non-starter. On the otherhand, it may be the thing that swings her over into the TDI fraternity/sorority. It is different.

[Steve Carlton]

I like the growl of them. And getting 50mpg can be kind of sexy.

[ckelly78z]

I don't know where you guys are getting your fuel, but diesel in Findlay, Ohio is running close to $3.00 a gallon, while regular fuel is running $2.10 That's .90 cents difference (was $1.20 difference around the holidaze). I don't feel the need to run premium even in my Porsche.

The diesel car/truck will cost more to buy and take care of/fix, and all of this is assuming you don't need to add diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) to keep the catyletic converter happy, I add diesel kleen fluid to the gas tank on every fillup. Let's not forget about having to plug it in in cold weather, and getting diesel fuel fumes on your gloves when filling up and smelling that lovely exhaust smell when stopped in traffic. It takes longer to start when cold from having to cycle the glow plugs. The motor will last longer than the gas motor, and be worth more when you go to sell.

I don't mind the all the quirks of owning a diesel, except for cold weather operation, but somehow I don't think your wife would want to put up with all that when the price comes out even in the end. I have my F-250 Powerstroke 4x4 for hauling firewood, pulling the camper and the horse trailer, and god honest truth, I am looking at F-250s with the 6.8 L V-10 gas engine to replace it with because it is rusty and needs a lot of work.

[OffCamber00]

Curious on feedback regarding long term ownership for these cars. I've sworn off VWs since I inherited a '99 Jetta when I married my wife. That thing hit 5 years old and fell apart. Everything went in it - MAF, cat, air conditioning, etc.

I've been jonesing for a Golf TDI ever since we rented one overseas but can't seem to shake my fears of terrible maintenance.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

I don't know where you guys are getting your fuel, but diesel in Findlay, Ohio is running close to $3.00 a gallon, while regular fuel is running $2.10 That's .90 cents difference (was $1.20 difference around the holidaze). I don't feel the need to run premium even in my Porsche.

The diesel car/truck will cost more to buy and take care of/fix, and all of this is assuming you don't need to add diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) to keep the catyletic converter happy, I add diesel kleen fluid to the gas tank on every fillup. Let's not forget about having to plug it in in cold weather, and getting diesel fuel fumes on your gloves when filling up and smelling that lovely exhaust smell when stopped in traffic. It takes longer to start when cold from having to cycle the glow plugs. The motor will last longer than the gas motor, and be worth more when you go to sell.

I don't mind the all the quirks of owning a diesel, except for cold weather operation, but somehow I don't think your wife would want to put up with all that when the price comes out even in the end. I have my F-250 Powerstroke 4x4 for hauling firewood, pulling the camper and the horse trailer, and god honest truth, I am looking at F-250s with the 6.8 L V-10 gas engine to replace it with because it is rusty and needs a lot of work.

Ahhhhhhhh but it's Findlay. You guys deserve to get hosed on prices.

Us good folks down here in Delphos get rewarded for our clean livin' We are "America's Friendliest City" unless you're from out of town.

[osidak]

I have owned TDI's since 2000 - Loved my A4 Jetta TDI but she died in a head on collision. The only real issue I had with the car was I that I had to replace the window regulators 8 times....

Replaced it with a 2010 JSW 6 speed. Great car as well but she has had a string of issues that ranged from a door lock actuator dying ($400 in parts) to various parts of the emissions system going tits up (~ $3700 in parts most covered under warranty) to the having to use 3rd part "fix it" parts to fix the flapper motor to avoid another $450 in parts repair. I do all my own work unless it is covered by warranty so it has mostly just been parts cost for me but still.

Need to see if I can get a few issues that the dealer caused fixed by them when they replaced a good portion of the exhaust (now have an exhaust leak and a nasty sounding rattle) if not I will be digging in for that as well.

That said the A4 - I easily saw 50 mpg on the highway - the JSW I usually see 41 to 42 mpg on the same stretches.

Personally I say stick with gas and also stay away from the DSG transmissions.

[1990C4S]

The cost of ownership has gone up with every VW diesel 'upgrade' since the A4 engine. Yes, they are better engines, they are also increasingly complicated with more and more sensors.

I would factor in some potentially costly repairs in my diesel estimates, and with the price difference in fuel, I do not see the diesel being the lowest cost in the end.

If you are buying a DSG look into maintenance costs. They are significant.

Drive both. Buy the one you enjoy. Life is short, a few grand extra to get a car you enjoy is money well spent.

[campbellcj]

There's also an electric Golf now, which I find kinda intriguing. When my Audi eventually dies I may go TDI or electric for the commuter beater. Hard to say.

[osidak]

Modern TDI's are not ideal for what I call a commuter (frequent short trips) They tend to be better for the highway warrior. Reason being - The emission system is made up of several high dollar components. One of these components is the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). This part collects soot from the exhaust and when the pressure differential hits a certain point it burns off the soot. At highway speeds this can be done via a passive burn or if you do more of a city cycle it goes to an active regeneration which modifies the combustion cycle.

You start getting "pre injections" which is fuel that is injected before TDC and also "post injections" which is fuel shot into the system via the exhaust. During these times power goes down due the non optimal fuel injection points so boost levels are increased. This is all done to bring the DPF up to ~ 2500 degrees.

City cycle driving tends to increase the number of active regens vs the passive ones. It is also more likely you will interrupt a regen more often when doing the city cycle drives. The excessive heat and the failure to complete the regen tends to kill a DPF quickly.

I drive probably 60/40 city/highway - My DPF and two other catalyst where replaced under warranty at 78,000 miles.

Also during a active regen the engine runs really rough. First few times it happens you feel like the engine is about to fall out. If you happen to be at low speed and between gears when it kicks on the car will actually jolt on you. Was in traffic once and the jolt was good enough that I thought I got rear ended.

[tedg04]

At current fuel prices, it doesn't pencil out.
Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Update - Energy Information Administration Link shows national average this week for diesel is $2.866/gal, $2.044 for regular. That's a difference of $0.822, or $0.822/$2.044 = 40%.
2015 VW Golf - The Versatile Compact Car | Volkswagen Link shows hwy economy of 45mpg in TDi, 36 in 1.8t. Difference of 9mpg, 9/36 = 25%.

Will there always be an $0.80 gap in fuel price? I don't think so. But currently it doesn't make sense.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Ahhhhhhhh but it's Findlay. You guys deserve to get hosed on prices.

Us good folks down here in Delphos get rewarded for our clean livin' We are "America's Friendliest City" unless you're from out of town.

I have always wondered why the gas prices are always higher in Findlay, the world headquarters of Marathon oil, than in Delphos (world headquarters of wind generators). It must be that clean living !

[aigel]

2011 TDI 6 speed with 60k here. I love the car. Zero problems to date. Only maintenance and a set of tires.

Doubt fuel prices will stay this low and the delta diesel-gas will shrink again, especially if looked at in %. I can easily get 45 mpg on long trips, 50 is doable when staying at 65 mph or below.

The resale difference is much bigger than what Steve speculates, at least here in California.

I'd look a bit further than $2/gal gas and take the TDI for a test run. You'll enjoy it, especially if you can row a 6 speed!

G

[yetibone]

I'm not doubting the performance, features, or feel of a new Volkswagen, but considering the 90k mile "fall apart" problem VW's have had since the '90s, the issues I had personally with a B5 Passat my wife drove for 4 years, and the up to $10k needed to fix a blow'd up TDI, and GDI injection pump on the newer ones, I wouldn't recommend that car to anybody.

Beygon, your biggest adversaries in PARF ought to take up a collection, and buy one for you in succinct retaliation.

That's just what I think, though. Your results may vary.