? about for sale ads - disclosure/integrity

[Christien]

This week I had a PPI done on a car for sale I found here in the Pelican classifieds. It turned up some major things, most of which the seller legitimately wasn't aware of (70% leakage on one of the cylinders being the big one). He was made aware of the PPI results, both by myself and the shop. He turned down the offer I made him, and I have no further interest in the car. But I've noticed he hasn't updated his for sale ad to include these problems.

My question to the Pelican brain trust is should he update the ad, and if he doesn't, should I call him out publicly? I have no dog in the fight anymore, but I'd hate to see someone screwed over, even if they are a bit naive. Certainly any time I've sold a car (and I've sold many) I've disclosed everything I know to be wrong with it. I don't want anyone ever coming back to me after a sale saying there was a problem I should've told them about, and the associated headaches with that. But beyond that, I'm an honest person - I teach my kids to be honest, I expect it from other people, and therefore expect it of myself. But then I also get that selling cars is as much about being a smart buyer as it is being a truthful seller.

Comments, please.

[JD159]

Well considering it took me about 45 seconds to trace back your posts to the corresponding ad, I'd say you already outed them -- intentionally or not.

Also located in "Steel City"

[Baz]

Originally Posted by JD159

Well considering it took me about 45 seconds to trace back your posts to the corresponding ad, I'd say you already outed them -- intentionally or not.

Also located in "Steel City"

Is this the car?

1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet (Air Cooled G50)

Christian.....have you sent the seller a PM politely urging him to add the details about your PPM?

Maybe he is going to get a second opinion on the leak down test before admitting there's an issue.

I admire your concern but sometimes it doesn't pay to get involved. No good deed goes unpunished, etc.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Christien

He was made aware of the PPI results, both by myself and the shop. He turned down the offer I made him, and I have no further interest in the car. But I've noticed he hasn't updated his for sale ad to include these problems.

He is well aware of a potential problem.

But he doesn't inform the buyer.

That is a problem.

[Bill Douglas]

I'm not surprised. He only has 8 posts so he's here to sell the car, not to be a genuine member of the community.

[stomachmonkey]

Sold a Triumph to a guy a bunch of years back. Car was cherry, 25K documented miles on a 20 yr old car. Needed the water pump done. If you know about old Triumphs it's not liked doing a water pump on a small block Cheby. I disclosed it and arranged with the local TR shop to do the work, buyer paid for it.

Before the buyer could pick up we had a monsoon and the car was outside. I waited too long to take the cover off and the paint developed some ghost spots. I disclosed it.

Day before I delivered the car I left it in my driveway while I ran to get some new wiper blades and when I got back the windshield was cracked. Called the guy and told him.

He was in CT , I was in NY, he had wired me money and I was to drive the car to the ferry in Port Jefferson and park it. His nephew was coming to get it. On the drive out the clutch started slipping.

Called him and got voicemail so I left the car.

I fully expected to send him some money back.

A few days go by and I don't hear from him, I think he must be pissed and call him.

He answers and I ask him if everything is OK. He is ecstatic, he loves the car, he's bought and sold a few of them already and this is the one he's been looking for, it's better than he imagined. Apologizes for not calling but he and his wife have been busy driving and enjoying the car.

Takeaway, it's hard to gauge others expectations when your own standards are high.

As to OP's dilemma, were it me, I'd PM the guy to disclose the known issues and if he does not I'd have no problem dropping dime on his ad.

If seller is aware of issues and does not disclose that's just wrong.

YMMV.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

I'm not surprised. He only has 8 posts so he's here to sell the car, not to be a genuine member of the community.

If that is the case then I agree.

He needs to be kept honest.

[Arizona_928]

My bet he's a flipper and doesn't Care.... He got boned so goes the boning...
Call him out and ban... This is a community, and he's trying to pass off a lemon. Lack of integrity is a big no no.

However, that's my two cents worth.

[KFC911]

Seller would be dishonest (at this point) IMO....I'd point it out to his potential buyers with no qualms whatsoever....you're either honest or you're not, and I sleep well at night

[Christien]

I just sent him an email.

[faverymi]

Flippers, scammers get banned.

Open a new account. Keep doing business. That easy.

I get very suspicious about any member selling anything with recently open accounts or very low post.

I called one a few months ago. And I got a long PM about my dad being a collector. He died. Just took over the estate. I'm new to this yada yada yada. Never so any post again.

[javadog]

Here's the dilemma. Let's say that the car actually runs well and that 70% leakage isn't a real problem. There's a chance that a small bit of carbon got dislodged when the spark plug for that cylinder was unscrewed and maybe it landed on the exhaust valve seat in that cylinder. The carbon prevents the valve from seating properly, and the leakage shows to be high. Small chance, but it has happened.

Did the shop indicate where the leakage was coming from? Were the compression numbers also bad?

JR

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by javadog

Here's the dilemma. Let's say that the car actually runs well and that 70% leakage isn't a real problem. There's a chance that a small bit of carbon got dislodged when the spark plug for that cylinder was unscrewed and maybe it landed on the exhaust valve seat in that cylinder. The carbon prevents the valve from seating properly, and the leakage shows to be high. Small chance, but it has happened.

Did the shop indicate where the leakage was coming from? Were the compression numbers also bad?

JR

Still not a dilemma from my perspective....as a seller, I would explain what "I" know now and let a potential buyer decide if they want pursue further. That's just how I was raised...I'll do my best to be a straight shooter...as I think most here would...YMMV.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by faverymi

Flippers, scammers get banned.

Open a new account. Keep doing business. That easy.

I get very suspicious about any member selling anything with recently open accounts or very low post.

I called one a few months ago. And I got a long PM about my dad being a collector. He died. Just took over the estate. I'm new to this yada yada yada. Never so any post again.

I don't think he's a flipper, definitely not a scammer. I spoke to him on the phone, did a few minutes of google research with phone # and email address, he's legit.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by javadog

Here's the dilemma. Let's say that the car actually runs well and that 70% leakage isn't a real problem. There's a chance that a small bit of carbon got dislodged when the spark plug for that cylinder was unscrewed and maybe it landed on the exhaust valve seat in that cylinder. The carbon prevents the valve from seating properly, and the leakage shows to be high. Small chance, but it has happened.

Did the shop indicate where the leakage was coming from? Were the compression numbers also bad?

JR

Compression on 1-5 was 145-150 PSI with 4-5% leakage. #6 was 125 with 70% leakage. There was also the matter of the power top needed both motors replaced, and oil leak at the pulley shaft, a leaking lower valve cover and a substandard paint job on the passenger's side door, all of which should be disclosed, IMO. It's not a "no leaks", "turn-key" car, as advertised.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by KC911

Still not a dilemma from my perspective....as a seller, I would explain what "I" know now and let a potential buyer decide if they want pursue further. That's just how I was raised...I'll do my best to be a straight shooter...as I think most here would...YMMV.

Nothing wrong with disclosure but if it were me, I'd be fairly certain that the test was accurate before it entered the public realm. There have been PPI's done that weren't worth the paper they were printed on.

JR

[Christien]

BTW, this whole issue should be added to the great big book of why you ALWAYS get a PPI done. Best $325 I've spent since the last time I had a PPI done on a poorly represented car (and after exchange that's closer to $500 CDN). If it costs me $2000 in failed PPIs to find the right car, so be it.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Christien

Compression on 1-5 was 145-150 PSI with 4-5% leakage. #6 was 125 with 70% leakage. There was also the matter of the power top needed both motors replaced, and oil leak at the pulley shaft, a leaking lower valve cover and a substandard paint job on the passenger's side door, all of which should be disclosed, IMO. It's not a "no leaks", "turn-key" car, as advertised.

Did the shop indicate where the leakage was coming from?

JR

[KFC911]

Based upon "that" ad, I must have a $50K car in the garage ....but nooooo

[Chocaholic]

To play devils advocate a bit...should he be expected to accept this PPI result as completely unbiased and factual? Don't know the circumstances but not all mechanics are the same and often a shop will work with the buyer to help them negotiate a lower price. Perhaps he feels that's the case here.

Two sides to every story and without hearing his it's hard to play judge and jury. At a minimum he should certainly encourage prospective buyers to have a PPI done.