kicking myself for not buying the 930 i was looking at instead of my 951 4 years ago. they wanted something in the high 20s for it ...

not that i dislike my 951, just love to have a car pay for itself for once!



waiting on aircooled 911s to come back down in value. if not, my next will be a 997.2 C2S, but love to see the bubble pop here soon. the muscle car bubble has popped, maybe in another 5 or 10 the 911 one will too.

Or here :(


In about year 2000 I thought about going to South Africa and buying one (some) as they were a rand a dozen. But a friend who had recently been said the dreaded ;) English had already invaded and bought them all up.

I unloaded my RS America in 2007 thinking a Salvage Title car was not worth keeping. It was worth about 1/2 of what a similar condition non salvage RSA was worth. Today, it's probably worth about 1/2 of what a similar condition non salvage RSA is worth. Kinda wish I still had it. Not necessarily because of the value, but because it's getting to the point where I may never own one again because of the prices. A couple short years ago I though I had plenty of time to be picky.

I recently stumbled upon this picture of it on the local PCA website.

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6sjoukxr.jpg

I don't think it'll pop like the muscle cars. Those were all pretty bad cars, and prices went way up due to nostalgia / demand. But Ferraris and Lambos are going to keep climbing, and they'll pull Porsches up along with them. If you are wealthy, but can't drop 2 mill on a car, a $150k 911 looks like an affordable but fun buy that's still got some "prestige".

2 things about bubbles, 100% of the time:

1. During the bubble, everyone says it won't pop. (Usually on the logic that "they're not making it any more," i.e., "they're not making real estate any more," etc.)

2. They always pop.

Its weird how people never learn from history. This time is no different.

Any time any thing or asset class doubles, triples or quads in a few years after many years of stability, it's always a bubble and it always pops, history shows that to be true 100% of the time.

I can get a real good deal on tulip bulbs

When I bought my 993 the 80s 930s were going for the same money and I was thinking about them too ... I figured a N/A car with essentially the same performance was the better bet. And it was, for performance, reliability, air conditioning etc. - just not for collector value. I have no sore feelings. Life has a lot of these "missed opportunities" - stock market, lottery, real estate etc. etc.

G

What happens often is that they don't come back to pre-bubble levels though ...

DD'd my car for about a year. But I do a lot of miles and park in crowded lots filled with lotsa not-so-nice cars, so I now DD a Civic. It's less painful when the Civic gets a door ding.

Most guys on the turbo forum think it's nuts, too. We're pre-bubble owners for the most part, so while Haggerty might say our cars are worth $100K, most of us are of the opinion that if someone shows up on our doorsteps with a suitcase of that money, the car is theirs.

Your 930 is going to be worth a bit more, as it's an '89 (most desirable year due to the 5-speed) and a cab. I've noticed that once a car hits collector status, cabs seem to command slightly more than (or the same value as) a coupe. Targas usually a little less. So an '89 930 cab is just about the pinnacle of the design.

In contrast, I've noticed that for 993s and 964s, the appreciation is mostly in the coupes. The cabs and targas are worth less (than coupes) right now. So maybe the 911 to buy for appreciation value is a 993 cab. They go for about $40K. The coupes are $10-20K more, and some day those cabs will be worth as much (if not more) than the coupes. My $0.02: right now, the 964/993 market is being driven by enthusiasts, still. Richer enthusiasts, but enthusiasts nonetheless. 911 guys like to drive their cars. So a 911 coupe is a purer sporting/racing driving experience than a cab or targa (or at least that's the perception). So 964 and 993 coupes are worth the most (for their respective generations), and the cabs and targas lag behind. At some point, collectors will step in and then the cabs will catch up to the coupes in value. Try finding a 964 C2 coupe in manual. They don't exist on the market. But if you want a 964 cab in 4WD with a Tiptronic (the least desirable 964 to track), those can be had all day long...right now.

That may be, but 911 prices were suppressed for a few years. Not realistically priced, but suppressed. People needed money, and were letting them go cheap. Things would have to be pretty bad to see 10K runners again, and people who can hang on aren't going to sell really nice cars when times are like that.

Some people will always buy high and sell low. Others will never sell low, even if they bought high and prices dropped. Are people paying too much for the wrong cars now that good cars are worth more ? Yes. Are good cars really worth more over the long haul ? Sure, the really good ones are. Prices right now would be the only thing shaking them out of the trees. If things get bad again, you can believe the good ones will hang on the vine again, and not come out for sale until the time is right.

Prices for the best IB cars never really dropped, even through the recession. Maybe they didn't go up, but they didn't really drop either. The turbos were Icons in the day, and cool as heck now. The people I work for have real funds and vast appetites. The value graph may jog up and down over time, but the overall picture is ever upward. Again, there were those who thrived through this whole period. This is their time, and these are their cars.

Only if you lose patience. 993s are great cars. Truly great cars. But you see pictures of Steve McQueen smoking a cigarette next to a 930. Right now that trumps 993 goodness.

Right now. You shouldn't buy these cars as an investment anyway. Buy what you like, enjoy it, and remain positive. Ultimately it is the guys who have their cars forever who benefit most and wind up selling at the right time. Because those guys would never sell for short money anyway, as their cars are worth more to them than that.

Not yet. The demand will increase exponentially! Try Holland or Denmark is my guess.

Totally true, but it may be decades from now and the prices will never return to their pre-bubble state. A driver longhood will never be $5k again.

I just sold my '79 930 yesterday. It was listed on the classifieds here for a month, but eventually found my buyer through eBay. I have a friend who sold his '86 a couple weeks back. Exceptional condition low mileage car (~25k miles), but short of "Hagerty money" No doubt the 930s have appreciated, but my personal experience is that Hagerty numbers are inflated. Benefits them as they can sell more insurance.

Their grading system is pretty subjective as well. Scale of 1-4 with 1 being concours perfect. 4 is the bottom, so will include total roaches and basket cases. With that being the scale. Hagerty says that a #4 '78-'79 930 is $90k. Look no further than eBay to see what decent looking driver quality (not roaches) sell for. A very recent 100k mile '78 930 broke into the low $70's. I'd call that car a #3 personally - complete, good history, only "problem" is 100k miles on the odo. Hagerty says a #3 '78-'79 930 is $130k. I say: "good luck with that"

Interestingly, I had my car insured with them and when I called to let them know I no longer needed coverage they asked me if I would disclose what I sold the car for and if they could use that data for their valuation tools. I agreed...doing my part to help with the 'bubble' here:)

Shaun.... I usually don't divulge secrets like this, out of fear of what it could mean for me. But since you are a nice guy, here is the answer.....

Anything I own is worth squat when I put it up for sale. This ensures, no matter how much I paid or how well I have maintained it, I will always lose money on a sale. Then, a matter of weeks or months after the sale, prices start to climb. Almost always, at a rate that is so fast that I will never again be able to own whatever it was.

I sold my 1967 Plymouth Barracuda, I got $700 for it. Not a show car by any means, but a rust and accident free daily driver. With a big block. A year or so later, the same condition car was bringing $10k at the swap meets.

About 8 years ago I sold a very restorable long-hood, along with a parts car (totaled), for $3500. I even consulted with some experts here before the sale, and all told me that the cost to restore one exceeded their value. Look at where they are now.

When I sold my SC in 2013, I lost $2000 in spite of throwing in a lot of spare items that I had collected during my ownership. That same car right now is way out of my budget.

So, the secret is that if I own something similar to what you own, just talk me into selling it.

Congrats Jacob! Is it 996TT time?

Christ. Do you still have that car? Please sell it to kill all temptation I have to buy it.

Well, I'll chime in at the risk of much ridicule. I bought an '83SC Cab last year (17k orig miles/all docs) for what some considered stupid (I'm sure some still do) money. Do a search and you'll find it. Bought strictly as an occasionally fun "investment". Now, it's by no means a DD, nor was it meant to be, as is the intent I'm sure of the OP here. So, this "exception" has proven to be fun AND (to date) a good investment. A certain seller of high end P-cars on the east coast has an identical SC CAB to ours (15k orig miles) for almost 50% more than what we paid a year ago. Again, these are exceptions at these price levels, but good SC's (IMHO) are worth 25-30 all day long in today's world. Sure, there may be a correction, IF, that's the right word, but as many think here, I don't think to levels of 5+ years ago.

its an 88 factory cab, not 89 with the G50/50. That would have been nice, but hey the four speed isn't too bad since I changed out the R/P. When I bought this car, I didn't know much about Porsches especially turbos and I hate cabs, but once I drove this car and pressed the gas pedal with 460hp spinning that back wheel, I had to have it.

Hey did you ever get the 996 or 7 turbo?

I think he's looking for a Turbo S cab, so I still have my coupe just for you.:cool:

Thanks Matt. I bought a 2009 997 Turbo Cab, midnight blue over sand beige. 22k miles, manual trans, CPO car. The '05 turbo S cab I was looking at got sold wholesale before I could complete a purchase.

Very nice.

The bubble may pop but the prices for the air cooled cars will always creep upward and the numbers become fewer and fewer each year due to accidents and such.
I bought my SC ten years ago for what was considered a high price but it was a totally original car including the paint, chain tensioners and lack of pop-off valve. It was never a daily driver and lived as a garage queen and penial extension for the first two owners, it still remains a garage queen but I hammer the crap out of it when she comes out. I have seen three times the amount of money I paid for her land on her hood and that isn't enough to buy her.
a 30K SC, sure I can see it, the price on mine is 40K, but she really isn't for sale and I want the price five years from now if she were to go.
I should mention I did not buy my car as an investment, I bought her because I always wanted one and I had the cash, so I bought. It was just dumb luck and good timing on my part that I will never lose money on her short of some catastrophe.

No bubble on the S Long Hoods...15000 S LH's were built over a 7 year period over 42 years ago. Survival rate is relatively low on a car with world wide appeal that is of an iconic design.

What took them so long is a mystery? The Aircooled cars have been discontinued for over 15 years, they have all been depreciated out and are now achieving collectors status as something unique of a by gone era.

Prices will plateau at some point and hang, but will never go back. The days of a cheap 911 are gone. FINALLY!

For those hand wringing about the $25k SC, answer me this - what collector car better combines iconic styling, legacy, reliability, fun, and usability by modern standards for $25k? I certainly can't think of one.

I don't like the new 911 prices because it makes them less accessible to me, but I definitely get it. When I bought my first 911 I remember being shocked how affordable they were. I think today's prices much more accurately reflect just how great they really are. Besides, let's face facts, $25k is pocket change when buying a car in 2015. To cheapskates like me it's a lot of money, but you can easily spend $30k on a new compact economy car.

E36 M3 has most of that for less than half of $25k. I don't see those ever increasing in value.

E30 M3 is where the BMW market is, really anything from 92 on from them is just stale in terms of price, and will mostly stay that way because they cut a ton of corners, poor interiors are one of the big killers, that is across the board for them, not just the 3 series, although I do love me an E38

The '95 M3 Lightweights have been fetching big money, but those are odd balls, only about 100 made.

I can think of certain items that transcend all the bubble talk. Art is one of them. Someone recently dropped around 140 MILLION USD on a painting.

I would submit that as long as people just like to look at it, the 911 might be more art than car to some.

Old high end watches might also be similar..... crude at keeping time but they are big bucks.

Show me any painting where people are paying millions, AND 150,000+ of the painting was made, and I'll agree with that analogy.

There's a lot of air cooled 911s made. I don't know the numbers off hand, but it must be 150K, 200K or more (I think the SC alone was close to 60,000).

The prices at the top right now are not being driven by enthusiast, but by speculators.

Once they flee the scene (and they always eventually do), prices will decline, esp. for the larger production models.

Demand is never going to be as high as it is now (the demographic for the 911 is 45-55 years old right now, prime buying years), in the next 5 years and ahead demand will do nothing but shrink.

This is how the bubble works. Every time I have the money to buy one... They just increase in price.

I'll be in OK for the fourth, need me to relocate it closer to him?

close to 59,000 SCs

I believe my analogy still holds. A lot of art sells for less but is still relatively expensive for something that is not a need but a want.

I do agree with speculators driving market but I doubt that the 911 market will drop much in the next 5 years short of a bad economic turn.

But that is what is fun about predicting! Hope to revisit this thread and see...

LOLOLOLOL!

It has the performance and practicality, I'll give you that. Of course a V6 powered Honda Accord does as well. But there's nothing special about either.

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Just last week I went to a local Auto-Max with a friend. He inherited a Honda appliance and did not want to waste the time or exert the effort to sell it himself. We had to hang out for 30 minutes while they evaluated the car so we wonder around. They offered $15.5K for the Honda and he sold to for that. Done deal.

They had a nice looking 2014 pickup on the showroom. It was 59K! :eek: :eek: For a PICKUP?? They had a few nicer cars that were all staggering amounts to me. The last car I bought was my Carrera and that was 20 years ago. I was just floored how expensive the vehicles were. It made my 911 sound pretty inexpensive. It made me happy to realize every car I saw was going down in value but my 911 was going up. :D

The average cost of a new car sold in America is $33,560. Makes a lot of used 911s seem reasonable, even with the price increases.

Wow. So if we go with a nice Cayman S for 45K it is close to a grand per month for 4 years. :eek:

Yep, I sure like my paid for old cars. I have not had a car payment in this millennium.