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Deschodt 06-22-2015 08:06 AM

Good summary from Jalopnik, it's so stupid it's funny:

Formula One Grid Penalty Roundup: How The Back Of The Grid Is Made

This weekend, timing matters. Per F1 journalist Adam Cooper, Red Bull told the FIA about Daniel Ricciardo and Daniil Kvyat’s fifth engines at 2:43 p.m. on Monday, while McLaren didn’t notify the FIA about Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso’s fifth power units until 4:25 p.m. on Tuesday. Consequently, Red Bull starts ahead of Mercedes, as their engine penalties were applied first.

Per Formula One, Red Bull’s Daniil Kyvat and Daniel Ricciardo then received the first ten-place grid penalties for using a fifth Renault engine. Kyvat qualified eighth, so he was moved to 18th, ahead of Manor Marussia drivers Roberto Merhi and Will Stevens in 19th and 20th, accordingly.

Now we get to the very back of the grid. Daniel Ricciardo qualified 14th, so his grid penalty moves him all the way to last place, with four unused grid spots. Because of Formula One’s rules regarding unused grid penalties, Ricciardo was then bumped to a 20th place start (behind Kvyat, Merhi and Stevens) and must serve a five-second stop-and-go penalty during his first pit stop, during which no work may be performed on the car.

But wait! There’s more.

McLaren’s Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso got hit with penalties not only for using their fifth power unit, but for exceeding the number of allowable changes to make their engines reliable.

According to the BBC, the team opted to take the penalties for extra changes at the Austrian Grand Prix because they feel as if the Red Bull Ring’s long straights and short corners doesn’t suit the Honda power unit well. They’d rather take the extra hit for tweaking the engine now and have a better chance at the British and Hungarian Grands Prix, where they feel as if the Honda power unit will perform better. Furthermore, Alonso got the upgrades first in part because he will be taking part in Tuesday’s mid-season test at Austria, and Button won’t.

For this race, that means that Fernando Alonso gets a twenty-place grid penalty for his fifth power unit usage and the associated tweaking. He qualified 15th, meaning that he had fifteen unused grid penalties after being moved behind Kvyat, Merhi, Stevens and Ricciardo. Per the rules, Alonso must serve a drive-through penalty during the first three laps of the race.

Button’s penalties got applied next, as Button qualified a miserable 17th. Button got hit with a 25-place penalty for changing his engine as well as the team tweaking too many items for reliability on that engine. Button is now using elements of a sixth power unit in June. We’re on race eight of nineteen. That sucks. As he could only serve three of the twenty-five penalties from his original qualifying spot, Button was assigned a ten-second stop-and-go penalty that must be served in the first three laps of the race in addition to starting from the rear.

Just when you thought the back of the grid was settled, Alonso’s gearbox had to be replaced ahead of the race, slapping him with an additional five-place grid penalty, per the BBC. Only unused engine-related grid penalties would affect his additional in-race punishment, so this didn’t move Alonso one bit. He stays put in a 19th place starting position. Button still is in the most trouble of them all with his sixth power unit use, so Alonso’s gearbox penalty disappeared faster than a plate of homemade spätzle.

Thus, the final starting order for the back of the grid was as follows:

15. Kvyat

16. Merhi

17. Stevens

18. Ricciardo

19. Alonso

20. Button

Confused yet? Yes. Me, too. I can’t say the penalties and the way they’re compounded and applied makes the most sense. Needless to say, Red Bull isn’t amused that all of this is happening at their home grand prix (at the Red Bull Ring, for Pete’s sake!), either.

URY914 06-22-2015 10:33 AM

The fastest cars need to start at the rear of the grid. Pole position will now be the last car on the grid. Now that will be a show. ;)

Aragorn 06-22-2015 12:31 PM

Kimi and Alonso's first lap crash was odd to say the least. BBC Sport - Austrian GP: How Raikkonen & Alonso's scary crash unfolded Kimi just doesn't seem comfortable with the way the Ferrari puts the power down and Fred just got caught up in Kimi's tank slapper.

Watching both McLaren's exit early was hard to watch. This whole power unit token thing seems like a farce. It's only benefiting one team...Mercedes. Bring back testing and development... Otherwise it is just parade laps for the rest of the year.

Heard a few stories about Red Bull switching to Ferrari power next year. Also heard that Renault is looking for a works team buy-in. Which one? Heard maybe Manor (old Virgin/Marussia team.) Maybe Lotus?

legion 06-22-2015 04:43 PM

Now, I think Mercedes should be able to benefit from their superior development, but I also think sending McLaren to the back of the grid (and no more--no time penalties, no penalties on future races) for one race for a full change is enough. Let them race from where they qualify next race. If they need to revamp the engine again, back of the grid, for that race...

David 06-22-2015 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914 (Post 8678285)
The fastest cars need to start at the rear of the grid. Pole position will now be the last car on the grid. Now that will be a show. ;)

Didn't GP2 do that a while back? One race was on qualifying time and the other weekend's race they put the top 6 at the back or flipped or something. Or maybe I imagined it.

nostatic 06-22-2015 07:20 PM

The inverted start - a club racing favorite. Certainly makes things interesting.

ZAMIRZ 06-22-2015 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtrorkt (Post 8676962)
does anyone else think Diffey is just worthless?

Nails on a chalkboard.

kang 06-23-2015 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aragorn (Post 8678476)
Kimi and Alonso's first lap crash was odd to say the least. BBC Sport - Austrian GP: How Raikkonen & Alonso's scary crash unfolded Kimi just doesn't seem comfortable with the way the Ferrari puts the power down and Fred just got caught up in Kimi's tank slapper.

Watching both McLaren's exit early was hard to watch. This whole power unit token thing seems like a farce. It's only benefiting one team...Mercedes. Bring back testing and development... Otherwise it is just parade laps for the rest of the year.

Heard a few stories about Red Bull switching to Ferrari power next year. Also heard that Renault is looking for a works team buy-in. Which one? Heard maybe Manor (old Virgin/Marussia team.) Maybe Lotus?

From the article:

"One image of ex-Ferrari driver Alonso's car on top of Raikkonen's carried Spanish words which translated to "good, I'm finally over Ferrari" and was shared nearly 1,000 times on the social media website. "

Aragorn 06-23-2015 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 8676523)
I thought it was great that when Hamilton and then Rosberg screwed up the last lap, when the camera cut to Wolf and Lauda they both were smiling and I swear Lauda kinda laughed. They appreciate the fact that both guys were running balls-out. And props to Rosberg in the press conference for laughing about his off as well. He knew he was pushing and just got it wrong.

Every time I see a pole sitter have an "incident" on the last lap of qualifying I think back to Monaco in 2006...

yellowperil 06-24-2015 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914 (Post 8678285)
The fastest cars need to start at the rear of the grid. Pole position will now be the last car on the grid. Now that will be a show. ;)

Then there would be no incentive to quali well. Or I am missing something here?

Deschodt 06-24-2015 06:50 AM

The green font - sarcasm !

Only way you can make that work is with big qually bonus points... but it's completely against the ethos of F1, even more so than customer cars.

URY914 06-24-2015 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowperil (Post 8680895)
Then there would be no incentive to quali well. Or I am missing something here?

Yes, you see not every race will be started like this. On the morning of the race all the drivers stand in a circle and Bernie flips a coin and heads-pole in the front, tails- pole in the back. ;):DSmileWavy

yellowperil 06-24-2015 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914 (Post 8680917)
Yes, you see not every race will be started like this. On the morning of the race all the drivers stand in a circle and Bernie flips a coin and heads-pole in the front, tails- pole in the back. ;):DSmileWavy

Where would Bernie get a coin to flip?

TheMentat 06-24-2015 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowperil (Post 8681026)
Where would Bernie get a coin to flip?

They wouldn't use an ACTUAL coin, it would be a stochastic model running on a computer!

legion 06-24-2015 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowperil (Post 8681026)
Where would Bernie get a coin to flip?

He turns the track-owners upside down and collects any change that falls out. Serves them right for making a few pennies on a race!

nostatic 06-24-2015 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aragorn (Post 8679485)
Every time I see a pole sitter have an "incident" on the last lap of qualifying I think back to Monaco in 2006...

Yes, but in this case Hamilton screwed up first and Rosberg was already ahead of him on track so the yellow would have no effect. And with Rosberg, he was behind Hamilton so screwing up meant second or third. In this case, no Monaco but that certainly is an assumption for any "off" late in Q3.

David 06-24-2015 08:38 AM

Here's what GP2 does to mix it up: The grid for Race 2 is determined by the finishing order of the first race, with the top 8 positions reversed.

yellowperil 06-24-2015 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion (Post 8681064)
He turns the track-owners upside down and collects any change that falls out. Serves them right for making a few pennies on a race!

So that's why he makes them stand on their heads. I've often wondered why.

URY914 06-24-2015 09:14 AM

Bernie uses a coin with two heads. He always wins.


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