I think you are absolutely right. I'll go you one better. My '56 Porsche coupe hasn't been driven in two years. It has made MUCH less pollution than your '74.

I suspect a tailpipe test would indicate otherwise. A more modern car with a catalytic converter likely generates less than one-fifth of the pollution your '74 pumps out, especially as it is air cooled.

As for the electric portion you would need to look at all the contributors to greenhouse gas produced by generating the electricity. In your province the majority is hydro-electric is it not? Add in the superior efficiency of the generating station and the electric car may still be cleaner. If all the power were produced by coal, then maybe not so much.

Well, you aren't really comparing apples to apples. It is sort of silly to compare the pollution output of a car that you only drive 3,000 miles a year to a car that you drive 25,000 miles a year.

Do you think your '74 would pollute less than your 'clean' modern car if both were driven equal distance? Probably not...

Again - the Volt is hardly for everyone, just like Porsches aren't for everyone.

And Techweenie - I believe that wasting amperage by blowing away Series 3 owners is an excellent use of power - Chive ON!

Accelerating hard in an electric car isn't as inefficient as in a gas engine car, since AC electric motor efficiency peaks at the 60-80% load, and is mostly RPM-independent.

So you're not wasting any amps by beating 3-series owners at the lights! I drag race from every stoplight in my Volt, haven't noticed any effect on range.

I have a '76 '02

OK - well that's a real BMW. I had a low mile e36 M3 that ate hundred dollar bills.

My understanding is that the true impact of a hybrid or electric vehicle is not how the electricity is generated (hydro vs coal vs nuclear etc...) but in how brutal for the environent the mining for the materials to make the batteries is. I recall reading that each volt would have to replace over a hundred already manufactured vehicles before the environmental impact would be less than continuing to drive those older vehicles.
And then you get into what do you do with the batteries when they are done....there are no proper disposal programs for the materials in those next gen batteries.
Electric cars are a feel good placebo to those that don't fully research the realities in my opinion

^^
Thank you for your opinion. :D

We're a lot better off with horse-drawn carriages. Those nasty gasoline vehicles stink and are a menace to women and children, to decent folk everywhere.

Not yet. With time (and volume) this can get much better.

The whole "Cost(gas car) vs Cost(electric car)" argument is so politically charged that I'm not sure where to find a neutral comparison, if there is one. I think, however, that nobody out there is pushing for sending reasonable efficient modern cars to the crusher to be replaced with electric things.

Kinda want a e-car anyway - I have a 20 mile RT commute, 220V in the garage, 300 days/yr sunshine if we ever go solar and a truck/SUV for all of the silly reasons folded into the "no plugin can meet ALL of my transport needs" excuse. Oh, EV torque is fun too!

Where are you finding good cheap lithium? An electric 914 on my someday project list but the cost of batteries are prohibited at the moment. Regular car battery range sucks unless you put a ton (more $$) of them.

It's a lot worse than we know. One of my past jobs with Siemens was modernizing power solutions in the third world mining meccas. Lithium mining is unbelievably bad. Worked by slaves, and killing millions of acres of land so we can drive Volts.

If you saw the conditions at Lithium mines you would cry for the people and the environment. This is just some of the aftermath; your average South American Lithium miner lives to the ripe age of 20.

This is just wrong way to go on so many levels.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435376084.jpg


It's really just slavery and the wholesale destruction of the planet so that Leonardino Decaprio can feel good when he drives his Tesla.

Nothing is free. If you believe so, you are a fools fool. Pick your poison, and your pretension carefully.

One of my friends is a salesman at a chevy dealership. He had the opportunity to drive one of the first Volts back and forth to work. He and the wife had been out one night having dinner and a couple of drinks. Wound up stopped at a roadblock, and that's the first time the engine had ever started up to charge the batteries. The cop was a bit startled thinking he was fixing to bolt (bolt in the volt) and he was completely caught off guard for what the hell the car was doing!

^^
Funny story.
The engine doesn't charge the battery. It does start itself once a month or so and run for a few minutes for its own maintenance. That's probably what happened.

TOTAL BS.
That's a picture of a diamond mine for starters. Most lithium comes from brine, not hard rock mining. Diamond and gold mining arefar more destructive that the extraction of lithium from brine. I won't waste time addressing any of the other nonsense in your post.

Mirny Diamond Mine | Atlas Obscura

Hahaha! Scott's quite the dramatic actor.

Nice car. If it makes financial sense, and I see in your case that it does, why not go for it?

I drove the black/black yesterday - very cool car but black is just too hard to keep clean. Picking up a silver topaz '15 on Monday.

Better get rid of anything you own with rare earth elements in it. Start with your iPhone. And your car.

BBC - Future - The dystopian lake filled by the world

Scott also claims to have some non-existent fire department in his neighborhood, well, we have legalized pot here... who knows?

Maybe we should post pictures of oil spills and tiny otters dying, covered with the stuff... Or armed terrorists funded with oil money. Everything has costs, both apparent and hidden.

Again, it is a car that works for some, and not for others, I bet you will really like it wd15. I bet Mark will like his as well. Seems sort of odd, there appears to be a lot of Porsche/Volt owners, a trend perhaps?

Yeah. We'll consider the Volt as a possible replacement for our Jetta next year. Our son is thinking of getting one, too.

Just picked it up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435763840.jpg

nice colour.

Looks nice!

Welcome. I find a Volt and a weekend toy to be a perfect combination.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435765022.jpg

Congratulations! My wife loves that color.
I'm loving my Volt. My biggest problem so far is unplugging it without unlocking the door first. I've set off the cord theft alarm about 5 times in a week. I think there is a personal setting that will turn the cord theft alarm off, but I haven't had time to find it.
I just bought a Clipper Creek 220 volt EVSE for the office and I'm going to wire it in next week. I'll be charging it at work from then on.

Looks great, Wilson!

About a year ago, I was at a house that was about to be listed and the pro photographer who showed up to take the listing photos had a Volt. He told me that he'd had it for a couple years and spent less than $100 on gas so far. He drove all over tarnation everyday shooting houses for realtors but usually less than the range of the car.

He paid his own electric bill, (charged it at home), and told me that it cost him something like $20 a month extra for the car. Compared to what he'd spend on fuel even with a Prius, that's peanuts. For people who can charge free at work or in municipal parking lots, it goes down to nearly zero for fuel.

I have no problem with cities or municipalities paying for juice or tax incentives for purchasers at this early stage of the game. You need to look at the total cost of those in both purely financial as well as other economic costs such as cleaner air and less oil imported. The same people who biotch about the rebates on Volts usually have no problem at all with other huge tax breaks given to industry for sending jobs overseas, etc.

When it comes to taxes, most people play by the rules and rightly take advantage of what ever credits or deductions are in place at the time. The difference is that huge corporations all but write the tax code for their deductions through expensive lobbying, etc. I doubt that any Volt buyers helped craft the IRS code for their deduction or credit. But that's another thread, anyways. Nice cars, guys! :)

Wait...that guy posted some total BS? And here I thought he was known for his integrity. :confused:

Really? Chevy seems to think otherwise. Volt FAQ

The gas engine does not charge the battery. Nothing in that link says it does.

There is so much mystery around the Volt driving modes... it's funny.

Over on Rennlist, some tool was warning that in "electric only mode" it would take a range hit in low temps. I explained that there was no such thing as "electric only mode" but he was having none of that - his right wing loony blog told him there was. I said I'd had mine for over 2 years and he said that owning/using didn't mean I knew more about the car than a paid-off blogger. Whatever.

The 2013 and later have a 4th driving mode called "mountain," In that mode, it appears the Voltec system lets the battery draw down to 50% but then uses the ICE to charge the battery. The idea is that for a really challenging drive (like So Cal's grapevine) the Volt may need both max ICE output and some assist from the battery.

There are a couple display modes that clarify the car is almost always using some mix of ICE and battery, once the initial charge is used up. So you can't *direct* the car to charge, but there's some sharing going on much of the time.

I wonder what they mean by, "gas powered, range extending generator." Sure sounds like the gas engine charges the battery, and you are the only person I have ever heard make a statement that the gas engine does not charge the battery.

Maybe you are thinking of the system the Prius uses.

According to this, the gasoline engine, when needed, drives a generator that subsequently provides power the electric motor, which in turn propels the car down the road. It does not charge the battery.

http://archive.freep.com/uploads/ima.../0917_volt.jpg

You've owned a Volt much longer than I have, but mine does have the "Mountain" mode and the owner's manual says Voltec system lets the battery draw down to 50% and then uses the ICE to power the traction motor. Going downhill the generator/motor will put some regenerated energy into the battery, but the gas engine never charges the battery.
The reason for the 50% reserve electric power is, as you said, when the car is really challenged it uses both ICE and battery to power.
Under high loads the generator/motor acts like a motor. It and the traction motor drive the wheels using battery power. When the load gets really high, the ICE kicks in too. Because it is geared directly to the generator/motor, the ICE is helping power the wheels directly.

You are correct Mr. Richards. If it charged the battery it would be a hybrid. It is an electric car with a gas engine that kicks in provide power to the traction motor when the battery is dead. The generator's power goes directly to the traction engine, not to the battery.

You just need to talk to people who know what they're talking about.

How are you liking your Volt Mark?
I'm getting used to mine. Some of the novelty is wearing off, but I'm enjoying not buying gas. The Clipper Creek EVSE was back ordered, but it came today, just in time for me to leave town for 4 days.
Only issues so far is the feature on the key fob that rolls all the windows down if you hold the "unlock" button for 3 (or 5) seconds. Somehow I do that unwittingly. I've found all my windows down on a couple of occasions. Both times I was mowing the lawn, so it must be something about the mower seat hitting the key thingy when it's in my pocket. I think I can override that in with a personal preference setting.
My BMW 535 used to do something similar. I'd come out of a store and all my doors would be unlocked and the trunk lid would be wide open.

I guess that is what I get for asking car salesmen about the cars they are selling.

I should know better.

It really irritates me when people don't know their product, but talk like they do.