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-   -   I just bought a Chevy Volt (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/871867-i-just-bought-chevy-volt.html)

wdfifteen 06-26-2015 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome74911S (Post 8684245)
I make the case that my '74 makes less pollution than the majority of modern cars on the road today. My car isn't a daily driver - more like weekly, and only during a very short summer - and so it only gets driven 3,000 to 5,000 miles per year (5,000 to 8,000 kms). With this limited usage, which is even lower this year, I don't put as much garbage into the air as my 'clean' modern car that gets driven 40k per year. I don't have the specific numbers to support this argument, but in any case the pollution is minimal, in perspective.
I think you are absolutely right. I'll go you one better. My '56 Porsche coupe hasn't been driven in two years. It has made MUCH less pollution than your '74.

1990C4S 06-26-2015 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome74911S (Post 8684245)
I make the case that my '74 makes less pollution than the majority of modern cars on the road today. My car isn't a daily driver - more like weekly, and only during a very short summer - and so it only gets driven 3,000 to 5,000 miles per year (5,000 to 8,000 kms). With this limited usage, which is even lower this year, I don't put as much garbage into the air as my 'clean' modern car that gets driven 40k per year. I don't have the specific numbers to support this argument, but in any case the pollution is minimal, in perspective.
I suspect a tailpipe test would indicate otherwise. A more modern car with a catalytic converter likely generates less than one-fifth of the pollution your '74 pumps out, especially as it is air cooled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome74911S (Post 8684245)
After all, there is an environmental cost for generating the electricity going into the super clean electric car, it's just out of sight and out of mind. This helps to clean up the cities, but not the general environment to the extent that most of the public imagines.
As for the electric portion you would need to look at all the contributors to greenhouse gas produced by generating the electricity. In your province the majority is hydro-electric is it not? Add in the superior efficiency of the generating station and the electric car may still be cleaner. If all the power were produced by coal, then maybe not so much.

foxpaws 06-26-2015 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome74911S (Post 8684245)
I make the case that my '74 makes less pollution than the majority of modern cars on the road today. My car isn't a daily driver - more like weekly, and only during a very short summer - and so it only gets driven 3,000 to 5,000 miles per year (5,000 to 8,000 kms). With this limited usage, which is even lower this year, I don't put as much garbage into the air as my 'clean' modern car that gets driven 40k per year. I don't have the specific numbers to support this argument, but in any case the pollution is minimal, in perspective.

After all, there is an environmental cost for generating the electricity going into the super clean electric car, it's just out of sight and out of mind. This helps to clean up the cities, but not the general environment to the extent that most of the public imagines.
Well, you aren't really comparing apples to apples. It is sort of silly to compare the pollution output of a car that you only drive 3,000 miles a year to a car that you drive 25,000 miles a year.

Do you think your '74 would pollute less than your 'clean' modern car if both were driven equal distance? Probably not...

Again - the Volt is hardly for everyone, just like Porsches aren't for everyone.

And Techweenie - I believe that wasting amperage by blowing away Series 3 owners is an excellent use of power - Chive ON!

mrybczyn 06-26-2015 07:40 AM
Accelerating hard in an electric car isn't as inefficient as in a gas engine car, since AC electric motor efficiency peaks at the 60-80% load, and is mostly RPM-independent.

So you're not wasting any amps by beating 3-series owners at the lights! I drag race from every stoplight in my Volt, haven't noticed any effect on range.

72doug2,2S 06-26-2015 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Wilson (Post 8684267)
Ever had a BMW? Now that's an uneasy feeling.
I have a '76 '02

Mark Wilson 06-26-2015 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S (Post 8684430)
I have a '76 '02
OK - well that's a real BMW. I had a low mile e36 M3 that ate hundred dollar bills.

gordner 06-26-2015 11:50 AM
My understanding is that the true impact of a hybrid or electric vehicle is not how the electricity is generated (hydro vs coal vs nuclear etc...) but in how brutal for the environent the mining for the materials to make the batteries is. I recall reading that each volt would have to replace over a hundred already manufactured vehicles before the environmental impact would be less than continuing to drive those older vehicles.
And then you get into what do you do with the batteries when they are done....there are no proper disposal programs for the materials in those next gen batteries.
Electric cars are a feel good placebo to those that don't fully research the realities in my opinion

wdfifteen 06-26-2015 12:11 PM
^^
Thank you for your opinion. :D

Jim Richards 06-26-2015 01:22 PM
We're a lot better off with horse-drawn carriages. Those nasty gasoline vehicles stink and are a menace to women and children, to decent folk everywhere.

mjohnson 06-26-2015 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordner (Post 8684832)
... And then you get into what do you do with the batteries when they are done....there are no proper disposal programs for the materials in those next gen batteries....
Not yet. With time (and volume) this can get much better.

The whole "Cost(gas car) vs Cost(electric car)" argument is so politically charged that I'm not sure where to find a neutral comparison, if there is one. I think, however, that nobody out there is pushing for sending reasonable efficient modern cars to the crusher to be replaced with electric things.

Kinda want a e-car anyway - I have a 20 mile RT commute, 220V in the garage, 300 days/yr sunshine if we ever go solar and a truck/SUV for all of the silly reasons folded into the "no plugin can meet ALL of my transport needs" excuse. Oh, EV torque is fun too!

patssle 06-26-2015 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 8680776)
There are a couple of Teslas in my neighborhood. I've wondered about their range in Houston, where Air Conditioning is essential.

With the price of god lithium batteries so low, I've considered buying a 914 shell and converting it to electric. Maybe next year...
Where are you finding good cheap lithium? An electric 914 on my someday project list but the cost of batteries are prohibited at the moment. Regular car battery range sucks unless you put a ton (more $$) of them.

Scott R 06-26-2015 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordner (Post 8684832)
My understanding is that the true impact of a hybrid or electric vehicle is not how the electricity is generated (hydro vs coal vs nuclear etc...) but in how brutal for the environent the mining for the materials to make the batteries is. I recall reading that each volt would have to replace over a hundred already manufactured vehicles before the environmental impact would be less than continuing to drive those older vehicles.
And then you get into what do you do with the batteries when they are done....there are no proper disposal programs for the materials in those next gen batteries.
Electric cars are a feel good placebo to those that don't fully research the realities in my opinion
It's a lot worse than we know. One of my past jobs with Siemens was modernizing power solutions in the third world mining meccas. Lithium mining is unbelievably bad. Worked by slaves, and killing millions of acres of land so we can drive Volts.

If you saw the conditions at Lithium mines you would cry for the people and the environment. This is just some of the aftermath; your average South American Lithium miner lives to the ripe age of 20.

This is just wrong way to go on so many levels.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435376084.jpg


It's really just slavery and the wholesale destruction of the planet so that Leonardino Decaprio can feel good when he drives his Tesla.

onewhippedpuppy 06-26-2015 08:20 PM
Nothing is free. If you believe so, you are a fools fool. Pick your poison, and your pretension carefully.

SCadaddle 06-26-2015 09:24 PM
One of my friends is a salesman at a chevy dealership. He had the opportunity to drive one of the first Volts back and forth to work. He and the wife had been out one night having dinner and a couple of drinks. Wound up stopped at a roadblock, and that's the first time the engine had ever started up to charge the batteries. The cop was a bit startled thinking he was fixing to bolt (bolt in the volt) and he was completely caught off guard for what the hell the car was doing!

wdfifteen 06-26-2015 10:01 PM
^^
Funny story.
The engine doesn't charge the battery. It does start itself once a month or so and run for a few minutes for its own maintenance. That's probably what happened.

wdfifteen 06-26-2015 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 8685388)
It's a lot worse than we know. One of my past jobs with Siemens was modernizing power solutions in the third world mining meccas. Lithium mining is unbelievably bad. Worked by slaves, and killing millions of acres of land so we can drive Volts.

If you saw the conditions at Lithium mines you would cry for the people and the environment. This is just some of the aftermath; your average South American Lithium miner lives to the ripe age of 20.

This is just wrong way to go on so many levels.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435376084.jpg

It's really just slavery and the wholesale destruction of the planet so that Leonardino Decaprio can feel good when he drives his Tesla.
TOTAL BS.
That's a picture of a diamond mine for starters. Most lithium comes from brine, not hard rock mining. Diamond and gold mining arefar more destructive that the extraction of lithium from brine. I won't waste time addressing any of the other nonsense in your post.

Mirny Diamond Mine | Atlas Obscura

Jim Richards 06-27-2015 03:40 AM
Hahaha! Scott's quite the dramatic actor.

Scuba Steve 06-27-2015 05:43 AM
Nice car. If it makes financial sense, and I see in your case that it does, why not go for it?

Mark Wilson 06-27-2015 06:14 AM
I drove the black/black yesterday - very cool car but black is just too hard to keep clean. Picking up a silver topaz '15 on Monday.

1990C4S 06-27-2015 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R (Post 8685388)
This is just wrong way to go on so many levels.

It's really just slavery and the wholesale destruction of the planet so that Leonardino Decaprio can feel good when he drives his Tesla.
Better get rid of anything you own with rare earth elements in it. Start with your iPhone. And your car.

BBC - Future - The dystopian lake filled by the world


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