Spoon question for the experienced

[SilberUrS6]

The big, stocked spoons I have plenty of experience with, and have a few. But I think the time has come for a smaller one, one that can be easily carried without attracting notice. A hand-spoon, if you will. I have some females nearby that might have the need/desire to operate the spoon in a practice setting, and for this, I would like to pick up a spoon that not only could be fired by an 11-year-old female, but also get the job done should that 11-year-old need to engage an adult-male sized target. For this reason, I am not looking at .22 spoons. It would be great to have one that an 11-year-old female could work on mag change and initial round chambering. I realize the spring loosens up after a few hundred rounds, so I've been thinking about that aspect - putting a few hundred rounds through the thing first. But getting ahold of one that these nearby females might be able to use would be good. I know that there are a lot of you that know much more about the handheld variety of spoon than me, and have actual experience to share, so I thought I'd ask here first.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by NotaBRG

I am not an expert but I do have kids and an 11 year old would have a much easier time with an AR than a hand held bigger than a .22.

She has zero problem with the AR.

[cashflyer]

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

.... But I think the time has come for a smaller one, one that can be easily carried without attracting notice. A hand-spoon, if you will. I have some females nearby that might have the need/desire to operate the spoon in a practice setting, and for this, I would like to pick up a spoon that not only could be fired by an 11-year-old female, but also get the job done should that 11-year-old need to engage an adult-male sized target. .....


, so I thought I'd ask here first.

So why are you looking for a handspoon for an 11 year old? I'm sure she's not gonna be "carrying", so why not the time proven home defense spoon....a 12 ga?
She/they can then become proficeint with a handspoon when they are stronger, etc. Just my .02....YMMV.

ps: I have plenty of handspoons...the only ones I would use in a defensive situation would be "WAY" too much for an 11 year old imo....12 ga

[Dantilla]

Sounds backwards, but a small person needs a full-size spoon.

Small spoons have way too much kick for small hands.

[Joe Bob]

A revolver comes to mind, idiot proof. Point, pull and empty center mass.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

A revolver comes to mind, idiot proof. Point, pull and empty center mass.

My BIG heavy 6" M27 (.357) has WAY more recoil than my Colt .45ACP and both are WAY to big for carry....goes back to what Dantilla said....smaller/lighter is a HUGE recoil for an 11 year old imo.

[Seahawk]

I am no expert on ballistics and the proper round for self defense for a young female.

So when my daughter graduated from college and wanted a pistol for self defense, I asked a lot of questions and developed a matrix of sorts to help guide her decision.

First of all, my daughter grew up on a farm and was exposed to and shot a wide variety of fire arms. She, as it seems with your daughter, was not starting from zero in terms of comfort and familiarity with pistols.

Second, she does not like semi auto pistols. I have a number of pistols so we were able to shoot, or borrow, the whole menu. We settled on finding the right revolver.

Third and most contentiously, caliber. I added "self-defense round caliber" to the list of things I won't talk about with friends right after, "what's the best truck", "Ginger or Marianne" and "John Deere or MF"?

There is no more earnest a discussion backed up by a thousand provable variables, each simultaneously validating and cancelling the efficacy of another thousand variables, than what is the best caliber of self defense round.

I thought the floor would be .380. More on that later.

I then turned to a friend of mine who is in the self defense business and provides security for people who need it. I also spend a great deal of time picking the brains of a lot of other friends of mine, former SEALS and a few guys that work for Academi, the former Blackwater folks in NC. I have spent a few weeks there doing UAS stuff.

As you might expect, they broke down self defense into discrete elements, with the drawing of a gun a failure in their mind. Situation awareness and avoidance was everyone's mantra.

So, options depleted, a gun gets drawn, where are we? What is best? Again, discrete elements, who, what where and why for both the aggressor and the defender.

I can't go into every situation, but suffice it to say that at the top end of the predator chain, it really doesn't matter depending on when the gun is drawn. At the lower end, anything that goes bang works, again, depending on when the gun is drawn.

What they all left me with is the common sense behind the ballistics: Buy them a gun they will shoot, enjoy shooting and become proficient with. Have them take self defense classes that focus on practical applications of situational awareness. Layer defense at home...alarms, lights, a panic button hidden near the bed.

Carry versus no carry, etc. These are all personal decisions.

I can tell you that we settled on a Ruger in .22WMR. A lot of thought went into the decision, no doubt much of which will find no purchase here. I did the math, looked at the statistics, watched her WANT to go shoot the gun, and decided that sans a Moro Rebellion, we made the right choice.

Yours will no doubt be different.

[JTO]

I'd get my daughter a .38 special revolver
Troy

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I am no expert on ballistics and the proper round for self defense for a young female.

So when my daughter graduated from college and wanted a pistol for self defense, I asked a lot of questions and developed a matrix of sorts to help guide her decision.

First of all, my daughter grew up on a farm and was exposed to and shot a wide variety of fire arms. She, as it seems with your daughter, was not starting from zero in terms of comfort and familiarity with pistols.

Second, she does not like semi auto pistols. I have a number of pistols so we were able to shoot, or borrow, the whole menu. We settled on finding the right revolver.

Third and most contentiously, caliber. I added "self-defense round caliber" to the list of things I won't talk about with friends right after, "what's the best truck", "Ginger or Marianne" and "John Deere or MF"?

There is no more earnest a discussion backed up by a thousand provable variables, each simultaneously validating and cancelling the efficacy of another thousand variables, than what is the best caliber of self defense round.

I thought the floor would be .380. More on that later.

I then turned to a friend of mine who is in the self defense business and provides security for people who need it. I also spend a great deal of time picking the brains of a lot of other friends of mine, former SEALS and a few guys that work for Academi, the former Blackwater folks in NC. I have spent a few weeks there doing UAS stuff.

As you might expect, they broke down self defense into discrete elements, with the drawing of a gun a failure in their mind. Situation awareness and avoidance was everyone's mantra.

So, options depleted, a gun gets drawn, where are we? What is best? Again, discrete elements, who, what where and why for both the aggressor and the defender.

I can't go into every situation, but suffice it to say that at the top end of the predator chain, it really doesn't matter depending on when the gun is drawn. At the lower end, anything that goes bang works, again, depending on when the gun is drawn.

What they all left me with is the common sense behind the ballistics: Buy them a gun they will shoot, enjoy shooting and become proficient with. Have them take self defense classes that focus on practical applications of situational awareness. Layer defense at home...alarms, lights, a panic button hidden near the bed.

Carry versus no carry, etc. These are all personal decisions.

I can tell you that we settled on a Ruger in .22WMR. A lot of thought went into the decision, no doubt much of which will find no purchase here. I did the math, looked at the statistics, watched her WANT to go shoot the gun, and decided that sans a Moro Rebellion, we made the right choice.

Yours will no doubt be different.

Well thought out Paul...

But....for an 11 year old female? If it were my daughter (at that age/experience), then I still say 12 ga. We're not talking about experienced, trained, professionals here....just a "scrawny" 11 year old...as I was at that age, but I could sure have protected myself with my shotgun back then too

...and the correct answer IS: Ford

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by KC911

Well thought out Paul...

But....for an 11 year old female? If it were my daughter (at that age/experience), then I still say 12 ga. We're not talking about experienced, trained, professionals here....just a "scrawny" 11 year old...as I was at that age, but I could sure have protected myself with my shotgun back then too

...and the correct answer IS: Ford

I couldn't agree more.

My wife has a shot gun for her self defense because she doesn't like pistols at all...the Junior Wingmaster Express is her baby.

[HardDrive]

My daughter is 11, and the only pistol she has shot is a Ruger .22 single six. Kids vary in size at that age, but I don't plan on letting her shot anything larger (at least handguns) until she's 15-16.

It doesn't sound like you are shopping for a single weapon. I would not look a buying my carry gun with 'Can my 11 year old chamber a round' as buying criteria.

That all said, the weapon you want is a Sig Sauer 938 9mm with the extended magazine. There will assuredly be many other suggesting in this regard, but they are all wrong. I have spoken.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by JTO

I'd get my daughter a .38 special revolver
Troy

If I remember correctly you have LOTS of professional experience. So, in you own home, would you prefer a .38 sp or a 12 ga if your daughter's life is on the line? I just think when you take "carrying" out of the equation then it's a no brainer....and I "am" qualified for no brainers btw

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

OK, that was a literal-LOL. Thank you.

[flatbutt]

I've seen these offered on after market sites. I don't see how these are a good idea. Wouldn't the release of the gases interfere with the proper cycling of the pistol?

[Cajundaddy]

Food for thought.

I raised 3 daughters and all were trained to shoot, and defend themselves with high situational awareness, physical means, pepper spray, use of a fire extinguisher as a defensive weapon etc. I would not teach an 11 yr old lethal self defense with a handgun. Not even a Ruger .22 revolver. For me it is more about the decision making process of an 11 yr old child than becoming a proficient marksman. 11 year olds should not have to make these kinds of decisions IMHO.

[SilberUrS6]

Thanks, guys. I guess my OP makes it sound like I want to CC the thing, or have her do it. No, that's not the case, and I apologize for making it sound that way. I will say, a .22 sounds pretty damn small, but if it make her comfortable, then I'd rather she become proficient with that.

[HHI944]

Personal Defense - Taser® C2 Basic

Teaching a kid to shoot recreationally is awesome. Broaching the subject of lethal force...that's a personal decision.
Tasers friggin suck...and, if she mistakes you for a burglar some rainy night, you **** your pants and spend a few hours in the hospital for observation.

[Joe Bob]

The original question was what spoon....caliber is another question. The .22 magnum is a hella round.....kinda rare but it kicks butt for a small bore. Compare to the .223 in the rifle that the US forces use. Big bang, small hole.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

That all said, the weapon you want is a Sig Sauer 938 9mm with the extended magazine. There will assuredly be many other suggesting in this regard, but they are all wrong. I have spoken.

I agree that the 938 is the perfect carry gun, but no 11yr old is going to be able to rack that slide or shoot it with any proficiency.