Advice on issues with my school board

[Nathans_Dad]

I hope this does not go to PARF. I sincerely do. I'd like some reasoned input from people on this issue and I'm not sure that happens in PARF. Here goes.

My school board is considering a policy change to their anti-discrimination/anti-bullying policy. The policy as written seems very robust and covers all students. The reason for the change is that a local high school student who is a lesbian alleged discrimination based on her sexual preference because she was not allowed to do her "prom-posal" on school grounds. I had no idea what "prom-posals" were until a few weeks ago. Apparently it's not enough to just ask a girl to prom anymore, you have to have this huge production with balloons and music and skydivers or something. Ridiculous but there you go. Anyhow, this student wanted to have her prom-posal to her girlfriend in the school cafeteria during school hours and had enlisted several teachers to help. The problem is there is already a school policy in place which prohibits prom-posals on campus because they are elaborate and distracting. It may be that this policy was variably enforced in the past, I'm not sure. When this student was told she could not do her prom-posal on campus she began a social media campaign which reached some elements of the LGBT activist community. These people then exerted pressure onto the school board which then formed a task force to look at the issue and made a recommendation to change the existing policy.

Basically the change is to add LGBT as a specific class to the existing policy which already covers all students. In addition, the language they propose to add covers not only students but faculty as well. This policy is in effect for all grades K-12. I have four kids in the school system in various grades, including one starting kindergarten this year. My concern stems from the unintended consequences that this exact change has caused in other school systems around the country. First, LGBT students have made an issue of gender specific bathrooms in other school systems. This has caused these schools to build single stall, gender neutral bathrooms for those who do not feel comfortable using the restroom assigned to their biological sex. Apparently this also has not been good enough as there have been two lawsuits filed in the last year by transgendered students who want to be able to use the bathroom of their gender identity, whether or not it matches their biological sex. There is an ongoing lawsuit in Norfolk, VA over this issue, link: Transgender student files lawsuit over school bathroom policy | WAVY-TV

In this lawsuit, the student is alleging discrimination based on his gender identity because he (a biological female) is not allowed to use the boys restroom at school. The school built three gender neutral restrooms on campus and have allowed him to use the restroom at the nurses office if he chooses but this is not enough for him. He states that being restricted from using the boys restroom is interfering with his transition.

Secondly, this proposed policy applies to staff as well as students. Thus, if a kindergarten teacher decided to go through a gender reassignment during the school year there would be nothing the parents or school administrators could do to prevent Mr. Smith from becoming Ms. Smith over the course of the year in front of a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds. The only option for a parent who does not think their 5 or 6 year old is ready to understand or confront these kinds of issues is to remove them from the school system at that point.

It seems that the current policy which covers all students is reasonable and should simply be enforced. Adding a specific class for LGBT students in the policy singles them out and can lead to the unintended consequences noted above. My initial feeling is that the current policy should stay as is and simply be enforced.

There was a school board meeting earlier this month and this policy was on the schedule for vote. The school superintendent announced that due to the concerns voiced by citizens in the community they were going to table this issue so they could "provide more education on the policy and its proposed effects". Multiple parents and other citizens (on both sides of the issue) spoke during the meeting. It is not clear when the school board will bring this up for another vote.

So, if you were in my shoes, what would you do?

Thanks and again, please don't PARF this out. I'm asking other parents and citizens what their response to this very real issue would be.

[Neilk]

So I read your post and see the overall issue, but I am not sure how I see this personally affects you or your family. I just see hypotheticals.

As for the initial part of the story, ALL prom-posals, need to be done off campus, or at least after school hours. So glad I am not in school today, have to deal with prom-posals seems like a massive PITA.

[stomachmonkey]

Well since I live down the road I've paid a little bit of attention to this one.

It strikes me odd that there should be ANY specific classes when it comes to bullying.

Casual observance makes it seem like the district currently ignores bullying based on gender preference which I doubt is the case but the responses that I've seen to the proposed change sure makes it feel that way.

On the prom-posal, if they have allowed a prohibited practice in the past they sure picked a bad time to enforce it. Whether it was denied because she is a lesbian or her being a lesbian had nothing to do with it someone screwed up.

Human nature, when something is allowed and then is singularly not white, black, gay, straight, rich, poor, does not matter, that person will wonder what it is about THEM specifically that precipitated the change.

The school would have been wise to allow prom-posals for the remainder of the year and strictly enforce it the following years.

As for the bathrooms, I have no comment. It's really not something I'm concerned about playing out in my back yard.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Neilk

So I read your post and see the overall issue, but I am not sure how I see this personally affects you or your family. I just see hypotheticals.

As for the initial part of the story, ALL prom-posals, need to be done off campus, or at least after school hours. So glad I am not in school today, have to deal with prom-posals seems like a massive PITA.

So, you're saying we should not make policy based on future consequences? That doesn't make much sense to me. Again, this is MY school district where MY four kids attend school. How does that not make it personally affect my family??

Would your position also be that there should be no policy against murder until one actually happens to you or your family?

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Well since I live down the road I've paid a little bit of attention to this one.

It strikes me odd that there should be ANY specific classes when it comes to bullying.

Casual observance makes it seem like the district currently ignores bullying based on gender preference which I doubt is the case but the responses that I've seen to the proposed change sure makes it feel that way.

On the prom-posal, if they have allowed a prohibited practice in the past they sure picked a bad time to enforce it. Whether it was denied because she is a lesbian or her being a lesbian had nothing to do with it someone screwed up.

Human nature, when something is allowed and then is singularly not white, black, gay, straight, rich, poor, does not matter, that person will wonder what it is about THEM specifically that precipitated the change.

The school would have been wise to allow prom-posals for the remainder of the year and strictly enforce it the following years.

As for the bathrooms, I have no comment. It's really not something I'm concerned about playing out in my back yard.

I agree, that's what I don't understand either. If there is already an anti-bullying/discrimination policy in place, what is the purpose of adding a specific group to it? If there is bullying or discrimination going on against LGBT kids then the district needs to enforce the policy already in place. Adding more language to a policy that is already not enforced does no one any good.

[Christien]

I agree, I think the school's got themselves in a pickle here, based on the timing of when they decided to enforce the rules. As to changing the rules to include LGBT specifically, I don't think we can comment on that without knowing exactly how the rule is currently worded, and the wording of the proposed addition. Generally speaking, it's my belief that a broadly-applicable rule is preferable, because you don't then have to add specific after specific, at which point it simply becomes too wordy. I sit on a board of directors for an non-profit advocacy committee that is by its nature extremely politically correct, and the broader-application would be the route we would choose, I think. The key here is that the rule is applied equally across the board, fairly and without discrimination, and it sounds like that hasn't been the case in the past, hence the desire for a more explicit addition.

[dennis in se pa]

Cancel the prom.

[HardDrive]

There is no need for a school board to get involved with creating classifications. Its absurd. To allow a separate classification would open up a floodgate of requests from every group under the sun. It will cost the district more time and $, and likely involved litigation. The end result of course would be a system where everyone except white, straight males are listed as 'protected', and then the white males would sue! Its DUMB.

I would tell the board that there is no need for the classification, and that bowing to outside pressure will open a pandoras box of unrest and litigation for the district. A policy that simply covers ALL students is easily defensible.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Christien

I agree, I think the school's got themselves in a pickle here, based on the timing of when they decided to enforce the rules. As to changing the rules to include LGBT specifically, I don't think we can comment on that without knowing exactly how the rule is currently worded, and the wording of the proposed addition. Generally speaking, it's my belief that a broadly-applicable rule is preferable, because you don't then have to add specific after specific, at which point it simply becomes too wordy. I sit on a board of directors for an non-profit advocacy committee that is by its nature extremely politically correct, and the broader-application would be the route we would choose, I think. The key here is that the rule is applied equally across the board, fairly and without discrimination, and it sounds like that hasn't been the case in the past, hence the desire for a more explicit addition.

Good point Christien.

Here is the policy as currently on their website: http://www.kellerisd.net/studentsandfamilies/know/AntiBullying/Documents/Bullying_AdminReg.pdf

I do not have the specific proposed language changes because that was only provided at the board meeting itself in paper format to those in attendance. I was unable to attend as I was on vacation and the news about this issue broke about a week prior to the meeting.

Here is a link to a local news article that talks about the changes (written before the meeting occurred): Keller school board to consider policy protections for LGBT students, staff | The Star Telegram

[stomachmonkey]

The thing that strikes me, and again this is based on reactions I've seen and heard locally, is that the opposition to the amended / additional language is not that it's unnecessary because gay (all) students are already protected by existing policy but that protecting students specifically because they are gay is somehow offensive or inherently wrong.

[Nathans_Dad]

I watched the YouTube video of the school board meeting and while there were some on the far right and far left on the issue, I think the majority of the concern centered around the notion that the policy change is unnecessary (as all students are currently protected against bullying and discrimination by the current policy), divisive (as it creates a specific class of protection for LGBT students rather than including them in the student body overall) and may open the door for other legal challenges and issues down the road as other specific groups seek to be included as a specifically mentioned group in the already broad policy. There was also concern that the policy as it applied to adult staff members removes the ability for the administration of the school to use their discernment on what age appropriate group would be best for a teacher who was transgender or undergoing a gender reassignment.

Several people at the meeting said that no one wants someone bullied or discriminated against because of their orientation and that the policy in place needs to be enforced.

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

So, you're saying we should not make policy based on future consequences? That doesn't make much sense to me. Again, this is MY school district where MY four kids attend school. How does that not make it personally affect my family??

Would your position also be that there should be no policy against murder until one actually happens to you or your family?

I guess we are both confused. All I was trying to say, is what part of the proposed changes will truly affect your children? Extra bathrooms for LGBT kids, transgender teachers? I think many of these things won't even be noticed by kids.

Rules should be enforced evenly, as Christien wrote, and if LGBT kids have been bullied in the past, then perhaps the students need to be educated that all bullying will not be tolerated with an extra emphasis on LGBT issues. I think kids are a lot more open today than they were when we grew up. Looking back at my own behavior in high school, I just shake my head and think how I viewed any of my classmates as being different.

[Nathans_Dad]

I don't have an issue with extra bathrooms for LGBT kids. I do have an issue with kids of an opposite gender being able to use the bathroom with my daughter or son based on what they feel their current gender expression is.

One of the students at the meeting used a term I had never heard before, "non-binary gender". From Wikipedia:

Genderqueer (GQ; alternatively non-binary) is a catch-all category for gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine—identities which are thus outside of the gender binary and cisnormativity.[1] Genderqueer people may identify as one or more of the following:

having an overlap of, or indefinite lines between, gender identity;[2]
having two or more genders (being bigender, trigender, or pangender);
having no gender (being agender, nongendered, genderless, genderfree or neutrois);
moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity (genderfluid);[3] or
being third-gender or other-gendered, a category which includes those who do not place a name to their gender.[4]

So, if a student is allowed to use whatever bathroom they would like based on what their current gender expression is, what is to keep a young 16 year old boy from claiming he is "non-binary" and deciding he is a female that day? Are we to allow this young man to enter the girls restroom on that day without consequence? When he switches back to male the next day, are his actions while he was female the previous day excused?

Also, how does it protect the transgendered boy from harrassment by the testosterone filled boys in the restroom when they walk in? Seems to me it would be inviting harrassment to put someone in that situation.

As far as transgendered teachers go, I think there is a time and an age at which it is appropriate to introduce kids into the very confusing and changing world of gender in our society. I do not think elementary school age is necessarily the right time for that (especially the younger elementary school ages) and I would like to be able to parent my child as I see fit rather than have the school shove something down their throat that I do not think they are mentally ready to process.

I wish the school would provide education for my child and leave the parenting up to me.

These are some of my concerns.

[ossiblue]

Here's my take (worth about $.02, or less.)

I've read the District policy that was linked, and there is a disconnect between the policy and the incident that precipitated the policy change. The current policy deals with harassment and bullying, but the issue raised by the "prom-posal" is one of discrimination--more specifically, discrimination by the District against a specific class of individual. As currently written, it appears the District does not have a written policy against discrimination.

Without seeing the proposed changes, we cannot really have an informed discussion about this, we need to see the written proposal. The District, as I see it, is not changing their current policy, they are creating a new policy to cover an area that has not been formally addressed. Any addition of an anti-discrimination policy will raise the exact issue the OP has brought forth. Those that argue against a change, are really arguing against instituting an anti-discrimination policy, or at least, an anti-discrimination policy that has been proposed and which we, on this thread, have no clue as to what is stated.

All anti-discrimination policies have the potential of creating unintended consequences and problems down the road. Whether or not this District's policy does so cannot be known until we can read the policy itself.

Here is the opening paragraph of the current policy:

"Keller ISD is committed to providing a safe and nurturing learning environment for all of its students. We do not tolerate bullying or harassment against any individual. It is the District’s responsibility to respond appropriately to any notice of possible bullying, harassment, or sex-based harassment, regardless of whether a formal complaint is filed"

Why couldn't something as simple as this be added:

"Keller ISD is committed to providing a safe and nurturing learning environment for all of its students and staff. We do not tolerate discrimination, bullying, or harassment against any individual. It is the District’s responsibility to respond appropriately to any notice of possible discrimination, bullying, harassment, or sex-based harassment, by individuals, groups, or the District, regardless of whether a formal complaint is filed"

[cstreit]

The bathroom issue is easy. Simply remove the boy and girl pictures and words from the sign and put an ambiguous picture of their, uh, equipment. . Then it's not a gender bathroom, it's a penor bathroom.

Can you imagine the uproar if some 18 year old boy walked into the girls showers in PE while your daughter was in there, claiming today he was "gender fluid" and today identified as a girl?

This isn't about gender it's about the equipment. Problem solved?

They made a mistake selectively enforcing the rules and should have the courage to admit that this was a mistake, and enforce them equally for all....

[RedBaron]

Very fortunate that my parents sent me to private schools so I didn't have to deal with this bullchit. Promposals are incredibly stupid and just reinforce the validation that many millennials are "special". I cry for my generation.

I wish you the best of luck with this; I like cstreits idea.

[Christien]

L.J. nailed it in terms of policy wording and what needs to be changed.

But Rick I disagree that elementary school is too young to expose kids to the issue of transgendered people. I have a personal stake in this: my girls are 9 and 6, and my wife's cousin has recently come out as trans. We don't see him very often - once a year at the most, but we're going to have to figure out how to explain it to our kids, most likely at Christmas. And we'll just be frank and honest about it. These people exist in the world around us, as friends, neighbours colleagues and family members, simple as that.

On a personal level, I'm glad about the whole situation - I've always been very open to whatever lifestyle someone wants to live, so long as it doesn't hurt other people. Frankly, I've never understood why anyone cares where someone else likes to put their willy. But I never took trans people seriously - I always assumed it was a fetish or similar that people were trying to legitimize. But watching my wife's cousin go through this has forced me to confront the issue and change my beliefs about it. And in the end, it doesn't bother me one wit.

[72doug2,2S]

I think it's time to lean on the school psychologists here. They should be leading these school boards in navigating the mine fields created by PC bullies, like the LGBT political activists.

What does your school psychologist have to offer regarding these hyped-up issues?

[GWN7]

The school board has a policy in place. She wants them to change their policy so she can be special. She can have her pre prom party but not during school hours or on school property. You are suppose to be in school during school hours and it's a case of liability for having the party (non school function).

She went and announced what her intentions were and when she was told there was a policy against that sort of thing then she decided to play the sexual orientation card. Unless she can prove that the school board knew of other pre prom proposals and did nothing to stop them she is not being discriminated against.

As to what room you evacuate waste from your body in, it should be determined by what equipment you use to do it. If the person is so fragile that being in a different room upsets them then maybe they should reconsider there gender modification until such time it no longer upset them.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Christien

L.J. nailed it in terms of policy wording and what needs to be changed.

But Rick I disagree that elementary school is too young to expose kids to the issue of transgendered people. I have a personal stake in this: my girls are 9 and 6, and my wife's cousin has recently come out as trans. We don't see him very often - once a year at the most, but we're going to have to figure out how to explain it to our kids, most likely at Christmas. And we'll just be frank and honest about it. These people exist in the world around us, as friends, neighbours colleagues and family members, simple as that.

On a personal level, I'm glad about the whole situation - I've always been very open to whatever lifestyle someone wants to live, so long as it doesn't hurt other people. Frankly, I've never understood why anyone cares where someone else likes to put their willy. But I never took trans people seriously - I always assumed it was a fetish or similar that people were trying to legitimize. But watching my wife's cousin go through this has forced me to confront the issue and change my beliefs about it. And in the end, it doesn't bother me one wit.

A good and thoughtful post Christien.

I would just say that each child is different and I think it would be best left to the parents who know them best to decide when the time is right to delve into these issues. It sounds like you are going to address transgender issues somewhat out of necessity so your kids can function in a social situation with the family. That's completely appropriate. It sounds also, though, like you have not spontaneously brought up this issue in the past with your kids even though your daughter is 9. That's kind of my point. If there is a need to address it, fine. If not, then many parents would decide to wait until the child is older and the parent should have the right to make that call.