Menopause! AHHHHHHH!!!!!

[Iciclehead]

I guess I never realized how much I need physical affection being a guy. Wife has become androgynous, no sexuality and perhaps more seriously, no hug, affection or even praise. I am the financial unit, please generate wealth to support my dreams, for the rest hands off.

I would never, ever stray over most of our married life.....but the temptation is real, palpable and there. There are so many things that tie us together, kids, finances, parents, friends, housing....the split after 40 years is almost inconceivable, but I am conceiving it. Wife is in utter blind dishabille, I am the object to obey.

Seriously between her movement to this different person and my own personal challenges, I just want to be alone.

I would rather have a menstruating woman who at least has moments of reason rather than the fixed and negative that menopause seems to bring into some people.

Perhaps 40 years is too long for two people to live together......

Dennis

[Don Ro]

It's an awakening when we discover our desire for affection - verbal affection, minimally.
The awakening comes when we realize that affection is no longer there.
It's a curious and very hurtful kind of abuse...that indifference that we experience.
.
Heartful thoughts to you for your personal challenges, Dennis.

[GWN7]

Add the rational menopausal thinking to a couple personality disorders and a penchant to trying to commit suicide is my ex.

She informed me 2 months ago that she was still mad at me for buying a boat without discussing it with her 26 years ago. We have been divorced for 25 years.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by GWN7

Add the rational menopausal thinking to a couple personality disorders and a penchant to trying to commit suicide is my ex.

She informed me 2 months ago that she was still mad at me for buying a boat without discussing it with her 26 years ago. We have been divorced for 25 years.

That behavior is consistent with BPD - Borderline Personality Disorder.
BTDT for two years.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I've said this before on other threads in a roundabout way but I'll say it again here, hopefully more succinctly - traditional marriage as an institution is silly and fails to acknowledge the inherent incompatibilities between men and women and this discussion puts a spotlight on exactly one such incompatibility. People who are inherently so different simply can't be reasonably expected to live side-by-side in perpetuity and realize peace, fulfillment and satisfaction. It's just not possible. It seems that for too many people the choice later in life is to either (1) remain in a loveless, passionless, joyless relationship or (2) get divorced, hope that will solve the problem (usually not) and move on (insert that old line about "those who forget history are condemned to repeat it" or perhaps Einstein's quote about the clinical definition of insanity being repeating the same thing and expecting different outcomes...)

The kind of "emotional abandonment" described above is likely grounds for fault-based divorce. Most states have some provision for this sort of apathy / indifference and acknowledge that it is not consistent with what society (and more to the point, the law) expects "married" people to be like. That said, nobody is recommending this - it's just an observation. Another one (reality check) is that even if one were to file on fault-based grounds of this sort, it would be a difficult, long, expensive process. This is why the overwhelming majority of filings are "no-fault" filings on the basis of "irreconcilable differences" (typically faster, simpler, easier and somewhat less combative). Males file about Ľ to ⅓ of the time - usually it's the women (wonder why that is... but I digress...) but the rub is that even if you file as a man and even if you're right and have grounds under the law for "fault", you will still lose. Men ALWAYS lose in divorce court. It's a classic case of "even when you're right, you're wrong". The courts are hopelessly biased towards women and as a man - even one who's the victim - it's a virtual certainty that you will lose rights to your children, your house, your savings (whatever the attorneys don't take), at least half your property, your retirement account (sometimes protected, usually not) and likely a significant portion of future earnings. That's the reality. If you don't believe me, talk to some people who have gone through it or try to get an objective discussion with an attorney about it (not one that's trying to sell you on filing, which is hard to do).

Apologies in advance for any gender stereotyping here, but men do need intimacy and affection even if we're loathe to admit it. Past a certain point in life, women tend to realize that they simply don't need a man around - if they don't have one (spinster / "old maid") they stop looking or caring and live their lives the way they want, usually in the company of friends and co-workers. If they do, they become reclusive, frigid, indifferent and apathetic - exactly what's being described above. I know this is a generality but it's one that's pretty well-documented and which I've observed many times in people close to me. Women earlier in life need intimacy and affection too (and are typically more expressive of this than men) but this completely reverses later in life - it just becomes a total non-priority for them.

So what's a guy to do? As said above, you can suck it up and deal with being unnecessary, unwanted and unneeded (and probably being told so on a somewhat regular basis) or you can file for divorce in the hope that it'll make it better (probably not) and very likely get financially devastated. Either way you'll end up in the same place - unhappy, unfulfilled, unneeded, unwanted and largely ignored. It's a lousy proposition and I have the utmost sympathy for those in such a situation. I can think of few worse fates that to be trapped in such a situation with seemingly no way out (other than suicide perhaps, and nobody's advocating that right now!)

Usually the only thing that holds relationships together later in life is - quite frankly - a woman's desire to not "rock the boat" and the fact that people are creatures of habit. At any moment in a marriage a woman can file for divorce and get an automatic ticket to Easy Street. Many do. Those that don't typically seem to not do so because they just don't want to be bothered with it. That's probably the best thing you can hope for - that she just continues to ignore you and blissfully continues along the path of the status quo. At least then you'll keep some semblance of financial future, even if you end up emotionally hurt (better to be "only" emotionally hurt rather than emotionally AND financially hurt). Needless to say, relationships based on apathy, laziness ("I can't bother to file for divorce - not worth the trouble") or indifference aren't all that great which brings me back to my original point - that it's completely disingenuous for society to expect people to stay happy in married bliss forever. It's a ridiculous, unrealistic expectation and it really irks me that society continues to sell this fake bill of goods to young boys and girls who grow up looking for something that in all likelihood they'll never attain - maybe for a few years, but certainly not for a lifetime. People are just too different. Men and women in particular are FAR too different.

In my own experience, I've been in a couple of long-term relationships that ended up going this way. In both cases the women became indifferent and apathetic after a few years, taking my presence for granted and generally ignoring me and my needs. I'm not saying I was completely blameless (I learned valuable things from both) but generally speaking I was a lot more of a victim of the innate ability of women to exist without affection, love, compassion and emotional companionship than not. Both relationships ended relatively amicably and I'm better off for it, despite how much pain it created. I thank my lucky stars that in neither case did things go through divorce court - I'd have been ruined no doubt. I now believe firmly that the best arrangement is for people who care about one another to live "in the moment", fully acknowledging that it might not last forever (and probably won't, statistically!), just enjoy the heck out of each other, love and be loved, etc. I find it best when they jointly agree to support mutual things (interests, children, etc.) but otherwise take care of themselves - each person has and keeps up their own career, home / residence, retirement account, finances, property, etc. It's setting up a bad, bad, BAD situation down the road to muddy the waters with a marriage - particularly one that's tied into the American legal system. This is ESPECIALLY true you're a male and most especially true if you're a male wage-earner who has real emotional needs like most guys do (but are reluctant to admit). It's a recipe for disaster. Tread carefully. If you're considering marriage, think about why and what you expect to get out of it - you probably won't get it.

So what does all this mean? Well basically I'd say if you're single, stay that way. Be honest and open with whomever you're involved with and try to set up a relationship like I describe above. Be partners, be friends - do NOT complicate or ruin it by getting married. If you're already married I'd say (sadly) you're probably kind of screwed. Be the better person as best you can. Find outlets for your attention - hobbies, friends, ambitions, adventures. Be as supportive as you can force yourself to be. Be there if she wants you but accept that she most likely won't and doesn't care. I feel for you all, I really do. It's a bad situation but hopefully she won't get so annoyed with your presence that she files for divorce and financially ruins you. Hope for the best you can - which is frankly her apathy towards the whole thing. In a way the same apathy and indifference that is causing you emotional distress is the only thing standing between you and financial ruin now, so embrace it. Good luck.

[MBAtarga]

POP - you're right.

Not a single marriage has ever or will ever work, they are all destined to fail since men and women are incompatible.

[Craig T]

Damn…And I just started this thread because I thought my wife's hot flashes were comical.

I think POP and MBATarga are wrong. A man and a women can be compatible. After 18 years, my wife and I are best friends and have a blast, enjoy intimacy (aka, sex), enjoy our time together and our time apart. I don't complain about her interests (and expenses) and she doesn't complain about mine.

….Now my first wife might have put me in your camp (but I buried her in the desert and nobody will ever find her ). Life is too short to suffer through unhappiness. Make changes.

[monoflo]

Funny thread -- My experience is my wife went through it with barely any issues. So I was lucky.

I do think we guys go through some sort of thing also -- used to call it a middle age crisis - you know the red sports car thing -- though by that standard on this thread everyone went through that at age 6.

Happiness is pretty elusive and maybe its in the details -- this is about as sensitive as an old jarhead can get.
Mlo

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

I guess I never realized how much I need physical affection being a guy. Wife has become androgynous, no sexuality and perhaps more seriously, no hug, affection or even praise. I am the financial unit, please generate wealth to support my dreams, for the rest hands off.

I would never, ever stray over most of our married life.....but the temptation is real, palpable and there. There are so many things that tie us together, kids, finances, parents, friends, housing....the split after 40 years is almost inconceivable, but I am conceiving it. Wife is in utter blind dishabille, I am the object to obey.

Seriously between her movement to this different person and my own personal challenges, I just want to be alone.

I would rather have a menstruating woman who at least has moments of reason rather than the fixed and negative that menopause seems to bring into some people.

Perhaps 40 years is too long for two people to live together......

Dennis

id get out. and dont look back.

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

id get out. and dont look back.

+1 Life is too f@#king short.

[MBAtarga]

Originally Posted by Craig T

I think POP and MBATarga are wrong. A man and a women can be compatible.

You must have missed my sarcasm...

[Evans, Marv]

My best friend from HS went through a similar situation with his wife becoming indifferent to him and the relationship. Ten to fifteen years ago he commented to me his wife wasn't interested in sex anymore. Afterwards it was obvious all she wanted to do was sit at home and watch TV without being bothered by him. The house was paid off some time before he retired, and he wanted to move to a different environment after retiring. Of course she didn't want to have anything to do with it. His solution was to buy himself a house in another state. He lives there, enjoys going on motorcycle trips, has a place to stay in his "wife's" house when he needs to be there for one reason or another. So he gets his life to himself while his low interest, low initiative wife gets to sit in the house she uses, and there aren't any ripples in the financial situation. Maybe that's one answer.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Wouldn't do it... See the reasons above. Simply put:

Door #1 - stay put, deal with emotional abandonment, loneliness and frustration
Door #2 - get divorced, deal with emotional abandonment, loneliness, frustration AND financial devastation on top of it.

As much as Door #1 sucks, it's preferable to Door #2. Divorce won't solve his problems - it'll make them worse. Separate rooms perhaps? Man cave? 6 days a week away from home on a new hobby or business? Anything to get out of the situation without using the word "separation" (means "pre-divorce") or "divorce" in the discussion. Either one will guaranteed lead to a bad place and he'll end up getting his ass handed to him in court.

[aigel]

I'm not getting the "financial devastation". After the kids are out of the house and you are retired, you should be able to split assets in half and be on your way.

G

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

You must have missed my sarcasm...

HA! Yes, I did. After reading the previous post, I completely lost my sense of humor.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Wouldn't do it... See the reasons above. Simply put:

Door #1 - stay put, deal with emotional abandonment, loneliness and frustration
Door #2 - get divorced, deal with emotional abandonment, loneliness, frustration AND financial devastation on top of it.

As much as Door #1 sucks, it's preferable to Door #2. Divorce won't solve his problems - it'll make them worse. Separate rooms perhaps? Man cave? 6 days a week away from home on a new hobby or business? Anything to get out of the situation without using the word "separation" (means "pre-divorce") or "divorce" in the discussion. Either one will guaranteed lead to a bad place and he'll end up getting his ass handed to him in court.

Door #3, live a long and happy life with your best friend. I'm 15 years in, hopefully with many more to go. Life is a journey with ups and downs, but I can't imagine taking the journey with anyone else. We've been through our fair share of hard times but always came out of it stronger as a couple. Zero complaints here, marrying her was the best decision I have ever made.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Door #3, live a long and happy life with your best friend. I'm 15 years in, hopefully with many more to go. Life is a journey with ups and downs, but I can't imagine taking the journey with anyone else. We've been through our fair share of hard times but always came out of it stronger as a couple. Zero complaints here, marrying her was the best decision I have ever made.

I took door three as well.

It took me a long time to find her. I dated a lot of the wrong ones before I found the right one. She keeps asking me why I don't go buy a new Cayman. She never blinked or asked abut the cost for engine rebuild on my 911.

We still old hands in public and after 23 years and counting I still love her.

And no, she does not have a sister.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That's great for you guys but I don't see how it helps our friend Dennis here...

[billybek]

My parents (87 and 85) still walk down the street hand in hand.
It's cute as hell.
I hope my wife and I have the opportunity to do that at that age

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

That's great for you guys but I don't see how it helps our friend Dennis here...

It's good to have a counterpoint. I'm sorry that things worked out the way they did for you, and it's not surprising that you are bitter. But all marriages aren't like yours, nor do they share the same fate. Furthermore, I think marriage is something worth fighting for. Not that I'm suggesting to stay put in a toxic relationship, but I think it's becoming all too common in our society to simply quit when the going gets tough.