Speedster sheet metal and title for sale....

[porsche4life]

Why would anyone buy Thai. No vins, just some odd sheet metal chunks and a title to a scrapped car? Odd
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/5206078874.html

[porsche4life]

1960 Porsche Roadster sheet metal and title

[Arizona_928]

I bet it comes back clean... Everyone with a 60' speedster should take extra care in not leaving it out of sight?

[fintstone]

Lots of cars out there from that era with salvage titles...or no title.

[stomachmonkey]

Does a car that old even have a title in Phoenix?

My 55' Benz is a "pink slip" car.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Does a car that old even have a title in Phoenix?

My 55' Benz is a "pink slip" car.

A pink slip is a title. At least in every use I've ever heard of the term. In CA., titles used to be pink and not very large pieces of paper, (hence, "slip"). All classic references to pink slips in Beach Boys songs and "racing for pink slips" refers to vehicle titles.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by speeder

A pink slip is a title. At least in every use I've ever heard of the term. In CA., titles used to be pink and not very large pieces of paper, (hence, "slip"). All classic references to pink slips in Beach Boys songs and "racing for pink slips" refers to vehicle titles.

I understand that.

When I make the distinction between title and pink I'm referring to what we had in NY which was simply the small wallet sized paper vehicle registration card.

Today a title can be in my name while the registration for the same vehicle can be in someone else's but is not proof of ownership.

Because you could register a vehicle you owned in someone else's name means if the car has a pink only it may not necessarily indicate who the real owner was / is.

Like the guy who registered his car in his GF's name for whatever reason, he better not have pissed her off because the car was legally hers.

[porsche4life]

My bug is a 69 and still has a title just like all our other cars...


But what can you do with that title. It's just a piece of paper without the car with that vin number.

[LakeCleElum]

One would only purchase this title to commit Felony FRAUD to re-badge a 356 that was stolen, wrecked, salvage titled or whatever.

Anyone in the 356 community that cares should:

1) Make a copy of this ad before it is deleted.
2) Contact the seller, getting their name, address, and photo of the seller.
3) Keep an eye on future 356 ads to expose the Fraud for what it is.
4) Ideally, any car using this VIN in the future would be impounded by Law Enforcement and it's history investigated.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

One would only purchase this title to commit Felony FRAUD to re-badge a 356 that was stolen, wrecked, salvage titled or whatever.

Anyone in the 356 community that cares should:

1) Make a copy of this ad before it is deleted.
2) Contact the seller, getting their name, address, and photo of the seller.
3) Keep an eye on future 356 ads to expose the Fraud for what it is.
4) Ideally, any car using this VIN in the future would be impounded by Law Enforcement and it's history investigated.

Dream on...I saw enough fraud in the early 911 world years ago. This was a huge factor in my decision to pass my 911S on to a friend along with a promise from him to keep it forever out of the hands of the people I cannot stand.

Alas, when the money gets big enough, the slime begins to ooze out from under their rocks. There is no stopping them.

I have no desire to own a car considered collectable...after all, they are only "stuff".

BTW kids..Porsche didn't make a speedster in 1960.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

...my decision to pass my 911S on to a friend along with a promise from him to keep it forever out of the hands of the people I cannot stand

You sold your '72?

[sammyg2]

I came home from the swap meet years ago and showed my wife my new prize, a steering wheel for a 73 RS. She asked why i bought it, I said it's for the 73 RS I was restoring. She said, what RS?
I held up the steering wheel and said, this one!


There is a very fine line between restoring an old car and recreating one.
That line is usually decided by the TITLE.

There are many million dollar pre-war cars sold at auction that were built out of a pile of sheet metal and a few other odds and ends.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by dtw

You sold your '72?

But he didn't buy a pickup with OnStar The most stolen vehicles in America - Jul. 9, 2013
Or something ferrin with Lowjack LoJack names its 10 most stolen cars

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

One would only purchase this title to commit Felony FRAUD to re-badge a 356 that was stolen, wrecked, salvage titled or whatever.

Anyone in the 356 community that cares should:

1) Make a copy of this ad before it is deleted.
2) Contact the seller, getting their name, address, and photo of the seller.
3) Keep an eye on future 356 ads to expose the Fraud for what it is.
4) Ideally, any car using this VIN in the future would be impounded by Law Enforcement and it's history investigated.

It seems that COAs are the only thing that prevents outright fraud with these cars. Would adding other parts to these (with a good title) make it a different car? On the other hand, how much of a car has to come from a single vin for it to be legitimate? Lots of cars have parts from many different cars. We see "rollers" and "builders" here all the time with clean titles. If a vin plate and a couple of stampings are from an original car but it has an engine from one car, a tranny from another, fenders and doors from another, tires and wheels from another...is the title no good? Is it a different car? I am not sure the law on this or what constitutes a fraud (other than misrepresentation). Obviously you could not advertise all parts as original to that car. Enough used parts are sold here on PP every day to build multiple cars. Numbers are designed primarily to prevent theft. As long as the parts are not stolen or misrepresented...how can there be fraud/legal recourse?

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I am not sure the law on this or what constitutes a fraud (other than misrepresentation). Obviously you could not advertise all parts as original to that car. Enough used parts are sold here on PP every day to build multiple cars. Numbers are designed primarily to prevent theft. As long as the parts are not stolen or misrepresented...how can there be fraud/legal recourse?

I have no problem with someone building a car around a VIN as long as they disclose this and have a paper trail of where the parts come from.....Different states vary; but where I'm from: Car can be impounded for investigation and the person in possession is asked to produce proof......

We all know there is a difference between what Seinfield did and what a thief does that steals your old 356 in the middle of the night......Buyer beware....

[john70t]

Originally Posted by fintstone

It seems that COAs are the only thing that prevents outright fraud with these cars. Would adding other parts to these (with a good title) make it a different car?

As a parallel:
Your federal ATF says that the lower receiver constitutes title and ownership.
It is stamped on the frame.
That is the meat of the operation.

Not half of a 3rd-party cover for a hand grip.

That is essentially what this seller sells.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by john70t

As a parallel:
Your federal ATF says that the lower receiver constitutes title and ownership.
It is stamped on the frame.
That is the meat of the operation.

Not half of a 3rd-party cover for a hand grip.

That is essentially what this seller sells.

How is that parallel? Does the ATF say a particular part of a car constitutes title and ownership? Seems like a piece of paper (title) does. My question is not regarding ownership...because the title conveys that...and assuming the rest of the parts you add to it are procured legally...ownership is still not in question. The question is how to represent the car in a sale. You can build all the RSR clones you like...as long as you don't misrepresent them as original when you sell them. How many parts from the original car does one need with a good title to make any car legit?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

I have no problem with someone building a car around a VIN as long as they disclose this and have a paper trail of where the parts come from.....Different states vary; but where I'm from: Car can be impounded for investigation and the person in possession is asked to produce proof......

We all know there is a difference between what Seinfield did and what a thief does that steals your old 356 in the middle of the night......Buyer beware....

Why would you assume parts are stolen? Can they really impound your car and make you prove where the parts on it came from? I certainly don't have a receipt for the fenders, bumpers, etc. on my car. It came with them. It seems they would need probable cause.

I am just curious how much of the original car need to remain to make it kosher.

[Arizona_928]

It's very common in the MV world to swap out data plates with scrapped units when they are rebuilt if they are missing or ineligible data plates...

Same goes for porsche when they do a factory rebuild.

Most DMV want receipts, pictures, and supporting documentation of builds. However, that ad is like selling a clean title jap motorcycle frame... You know for certain that it's going to be used for illegal activities...

[john70t]

Originally Posted by fintstone

How is that parallel?

The same way the title corresponds to the VIN number on the plate.
The same number as the stamp in the trunk which constitutes a permanent part of the chassis.
That chassis which comprises the largest primary non-wear component of the vehicle being identified.

The problem is if a title were duplicated and individually signed by 100 people, each might have equal claim as the actual owner on paper.

The state only understands the title registration is current and paid for.