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aap1966 09-25-2015 07:30 AM

Engineers: How did VW actually do it?
 
Seriously.
We all know (?) it was a "software" mediated get around, but exactly how was it achieved? How did the car "know" it was being tested, and what did it do differently to return the rigged results.
(Assume ignorance but intelligence in any answers.)

Thanks. SmileWavy

Charles Freeborn 09-25-2015 07:40 AM

As I understand the car's brain can detect when the analyzer is plugged in and uses a different set of parameters than when it's being driven normally. I wouldn't imagine it's all that hard for the software to tell when it's being mounted, so to speak...

aap1966 09-25-2015 07:54 AM

Yeah, but is it that the car is stationary but with wheels turning, or the car following an arbitrary pattern of engine loads that the computer recognises as a test pattern?
Did the computer then alter the air:fuel ratios? Or run the car hotter (or cooler)?

Morality aside, the engineering here strikes me as borderline brilliant. So I'm curious to know how they pulled it off so well, I mean, they've been getting away with it for years.

Also, how many in the company knew? The knowledge must have been pretty effectively quarantined for not one "disgruntled employee" to have made a quite phone call to EPA / Greenpeace / NYT, who-ever?

pavulon 09-25-2015 07:55 AM

Front wheels rolling, back wheels stationary = emissions test?

pavulon 09-25-2015 07:57 AM

If the "fix" is a software flash, how long until tuners are selling a stage zero re-flash returning it to baseline?

enzo1 09-25-2015 07:57 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443196642.jpg

asphaltgambler 09-25-2015 08:15 AM

The 'firmware' is coded to communicate at specific baud rate by each manufacturer. OBDII is set to a much slower ( 10 Mbps - I believe). When any OBDII based tool is connected and starts the 'handshake' @10mbps - the firmware recognizes it and performs what ever task is coded and manipulates what it has control of

Tervuren 09-25-2015 08:19 AM

There are lots of ways.

If tested on a dyno, only the driven wheels are moving. Detect a difference with the ABS/Traction control of one set stopped, other moving, and its easy.

Detect a control being plugged in, easy.

Parking sensors detect the car is in a room/confined space, easy.

rick-l 09-25-2015 08:26 AM

There are three ways stated so far
  1. Diagnostic tool plugged in
  2. drive cycle pattern
  3. wheel speed difference between front and back

Which one is it? All three have drawbacks.

From the quoted article... Is the EPA test chamber barometrically controlled? I'd believe the article if that were true

robertocravallo 09-25-2015 08:39 AM

Ask the guys at CATERPILLAR. They got caught doing the exact same thing a while back. So it's not german engenering after all... ;)

HardDrive 09-25-2015 08:54 AM

What is astonishing about this whole thing is how many people had to know about it. There is no way some rogue engineer did this. A lot of people were involved, and someone told them to do it. One has to wonder why the CEO stepped down so quickly. It very well go right to the top. And then one must ask....did the German government know about it?

1990C4S 09-25-2015 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l (Post 8809888)
There are three ways stated so far
  1. Diagnostic tool plugged in
  2. drive cycle pattern
  3. wheel speed difference between front and back

Which one is it? All three have drawbacks.

From the quoted article... Is the EPA test chamber barometrically controlled? I'd believe the article if that were true

1. is not the answer, otherwise a Scangauge or OBDII reader would put the car into test mode, which apparently does not happen.

Wheel speed on a dyno is reportedly one component (front wheels turning, rear wheels stationary). But if they used this method Europe it would fail, as they sell AWD diesels there.

There is a steering angle sensor built into the ZF electric power steering box, so the car knows exactly what the steering angle is, and I would guess the car is not occupied for an EPA test.

The speeds use by the EPA are very closely controlled, with 0.1 mph I believe, so a few seconds at either the low or the high speed would be another factor. http://www3.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/la92dds.txt



And yes, I believe the atmospheric pressure is controlled.

Tervuren 09-25-2015 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990C4S (Post 8809962)
1. is not the answer, otherwise a Scangauge or OBDII reader would put the car into test mode, which apparently does not happen.

Wheel speed on a dyno is reportedly one component (front wheels turning, rear wheels stationary). But if they used this method Europe it would fail, as they sell AWD diesels there.

There is a steering angle sensor built into the ZF electric power steering box, so the car knows exactly what the steering angle is, and I would guess the car is not occupied for an EPA test.

The speeds use by the EPA are very closely controlled, with 0.1 mph I believe, so a few seconds at either the low or the high speed would be another factor. http://www3.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/la92dds.txt



And yes, I believe the atmospheric pressure is controlled.

They didn't cheat European emissions regulations, the USA has its set of "extras".

cockerpunk 09-25-2015 09:52 AM

they used the wheel position sensor.

wheels turned: driving
wheels straight on + other things: testing

fairly easy to detect that the test was taking place. they punish the method, not to tough to find that one combination of throttle inputs, and other control inputs to detect the test method.

red-beard 09-25-2015 09:57 AM

How did the cheat work?

Just speculation, but a richer mixture and more EGR would reduce NOx

PetrolBlueSC 09-25-2015 10:04 AM

IF () THEN () statement. If hooked up to equipment, then operate in test mode.

GH85Carrera 09-25-2015 10:07 AM

The fallout from the Volkswagen diesel scandal is spreading fast to the company's other famous brands, including Porsche and Audi, and across the Atlantic to the U.S. The scandal reached down into the company's engineering corps as the CEO of Volkswagen's US business, the research and development chief from Audi and the engine chief from Porsche, which are part of the Volkswagen Group, are said to be following Volkswagen's CEO out the door of the company, according to multiple reports Thursday. The impending departures are a sign that the Volkswagen scandal is ready to grow to much larger proportions.

and how it can be done

Normally it is a case of pointing the finger down the food chain until someone cannot point any further.
Engineers are normally the Middle Class people, They don't have the money for a prolonged out of work. So there is only so much risk they would take at their job. It would be nice that everyone would be brave enough to stand up and say "This is wrong, I won't do it!" however with the risk of getting fired, plenty of the power is still in the higher ups.
Also it is quite possible that the engineers could design something without full realization on what they are doing.
I need you to code a function when variables are between this range, that returns a value in this range.
The function is created.
Then it will go to an other engineer, We have the function to optimize fuel efficiency in place, could you add this function to your code.
The function is added.
The higher ups can organize their orders so the engineers doesn't have the full picture of the scope. However when things goes down they will see in the comment that engineer who had made the function and the other who added it. They get canned, for doing their work, and never had an inkling on what they were doing on the grand scheme of things.

and how it was found
Sales of Volkswagen diesels have been on the rise in the US in the last few years, despite this more stringent regulation. ‘Clean diesel’ is a goal for the industry, and a European non-profit, the International Council for Clean Transportation, got in touch with researchers at the Center for Alternative Fuels and Engine Emissions (CAFEE) at West Virginia University. The question of how Volkswagen was able to produce a diesel engine in compliance with US regulations was high on the list of priorities, and the team was well-equipped to test Passats, Jettas, and Golfs in real-world conditions.
Despite passing emissions tests required by the US government, CAFEE found these engines were out of compliance. This apparent discontinuity can be brought to light by examining how diesel emissions are measured. An EPA notice of violation explains this was done by a bit of code functioning as a ‘defeat device’ that would sense when the vehicle was under test. Software installed in the electronic control module (ECM) would detect when the car was undergoing emissions testing by reading, “various inputs including the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine’s operation, and barometric pressure.” Under these conditions, the ECM would use a different ‘map’ that would reduce torque and NOx emissions. Under normal conditions – when the vehicle was not being tested for emissions – a separate ‘map’ would be used that would increase acceleration, torque, or fuel economy. CAFEE was able to determine this because of a portable testing rig; instead of testing emissions in a garage on a dynamometer, the researchers performed their tests in real-world conditions, driving around Los Angeles, from LA to Mount Baldy, and from LA to San Diego.

John Rogers 09-25-2015 11:06 AM

When I had my 2000 Ford F350 7.3 diesel tow vehicle I added a different intake and 5 inch exhaust both by AFE and an aftermarket programmable Edge with Attitude computer that had "stock", "economy" "tow" and "race" preset modes. The truck was ODBII compliant and when CA started checking diesels for smog they plugged in their reader and looked at the computer settings, blipped the throttle to check for excess smoke and that was all. I had the Edge unit in "stock" mode and the smog fellow never saw any thing. He did keep looking for a catalytic converter as one of his manuals said 2000 year Fords were supposed to have one but the others said no. The sticker on the right side valve cover did not list one so I passed.

I noted the readings which were the time the injectors fired, when they fired as to engine RPM and fuel pressure. I plugged my AutoEnginuity software in after I got home and pulled up the data windows for these readings and then changed the computer settings to see what happened and the biggest shock was in "economy" mode where injector fire time was about 65% of stock which is why the millage went up to 20 MPG vice 14 MPG for stock! The software would tell the brain in the truck, hey here I am, I want to get some readings so when ever I needed to read values they were handy. I would guess that since the function of the pinouts are readily known, what they do for various model car/engine combos is also known that it is easy to have the software tweak the settings.

I did note that the last smog test I had run on my Chevy HHR 2.4L, the tester plugged in his wireless reader, read things for about 2 minutes and I was done. No rolling road, no inspection or anything?!

1990C4S 09-25-2015 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervuren (Post 8810014)
They didn't cheat European emissions regulations, the USA has its set of "extras".

Then why are 11,000,000 vehicles affected?

wildthing 09-25-2015 11:20 AM

This would've all been fine if they just put three manual settings: ECO, Sport, Sport Plus, or whatever they want to call it.

red-beard 09-25-2015 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildthing (Post 8810218)
This would've all been fine if they just put three manual settings: ECO, Sport, Sport Plus, or whatever they want to call it.

There you go. This is probably how it was done. Multiple maps with certain things triggering them. One map was "emission compliance", and came into play only in certain circumstances.

MRM 09-25-2015 11:45 AM

The way they did it wasn't all that technically clever. If the engine was operating without the steering wheel in use, which is the case during testing, the defeat device would direct the engine to maximize emissions. If the steering wheel was in use, the car turned off the defeat device so the engine would go back to its normal setting and maximize power and fuel economy at the cost of emissions. Emissions and efficiency are a direct trade off. Diesels run best when they are running dirty, so VW was able to score almost perfectly on emissions testing when the but then show great power, economy and efficiency in real life driving action.

jyl 09-25-2015 01:28 PM

I doubt EU NOX limits are 10-40X US limits. In which case they may well have cheated EU regs too. And the VW engines were used on other cars in the VW group, I think Seat and Audi.

Car companies are king in Germany. But not in other EU countries. And Germans are ardent environmentalists and they don't like rule breaking.

Crowbob 09-25-2015 07:15 PM

So now waitaminit.

I have a Scanguage II permanently mounted on my dash and plugged into the OBD port so I can monitor MPG's, etc. in real time.

Does this development mean that it could be possible that my truck engine is operating in a fake 'being-tested' mode? Will my engine perform differently if I unplugged the Scanguage?

1990C4S 09-25-2015 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowbob (Post 8810783)
So now waitaminit.

I have a Scanguage II permanently mounted on my dash and plugged into the OBD port so I can monitor MPG's, etc. in real time.

Does this development mean that it could be possible that my truck engine is operating in a fake 'being-tested' mode? Will my engine perform differently if I unplugged the Scanguage?

That is not how it works....you are fine.

Captain Ahab Jr 09-26-2015 02:40 AM

to help with translation from English to American, an MOT is an annual transport test cars are required to take for them to be legal on UK roads

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443264043.jpg

SoCal911T 09-26-2015 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockerpunk (Post 8810037)
they used the wheel position sensor.

That's what this article is saying.

VW Could Fool the EPA, But It Couldn't Trick Chemistry

"The ICCT reported its findings to the EPA and the California Air Resources Board. Regulators met with VW officials in 2014 and the automaker agreed to fix the problem with a voluntary recall. But in July 2015, CARB did some follow up testing and again the cars failed—the scrubber technology was present, but off most of the time.

How this happened is pretty neat. Michigan’s Stefanopolou says computer sensors monitored the steering column. Under normal driving conditions, the column oscillates as the driver negotiates turns. But during emissions testing, the wheels of the car move, but the steering wheel doesn’t. That seems to have have been the signal for the “defeat device” to turn the catalytic scrubber up to full power, allowing the car to pass the test."


http://www.moreaboutadvertising.com/...kswagen_01.png

Geronimo '74 09-26-2015 03:55 AM

Over here (in Belgium), emissions are tested during annual technical inspection.
They just put the sensor in the tailpipe and rev it. How does the car know it is being tested?
How could it even pass todays emission standards when it is that much worse than claimed?
Makes me wonder about our tech inspections.....

1990C4S 09-26-2015 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74 (Post 8810983)
Over here (in Belgium), emissions are tested during annual technical inspection.
They just put the sensor in the tailpipe and rev it. How does the car know it is being tested?
How could it even pass todays emission standards when it is that much worse than claimed?
Makes me wonder about our tech inspections.....

Tailpipe tests for registration are gross checks, not nearly as strict as 'new car' regulations. And the allowable emissions increase as a car ages.

OBDII tests simply check that the monitors are functional, or most of them are. More monitors are allowed to fail as a car ages.

EPA / certification for sale tests are not the same as registration checks.

Rick Lee 09-26-2015 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990C4S (Post 8811022)
OBDII tests simply check that the monitors are functional, or most of them are. More monitors are allowed to fail as a car ages.

This. It's a total joke. My 993 is 1996, the first year of OBDII. When I first got it, VA was still doing the dyno/tailpipe/sniff test and the emissions were as clean as a bicycle. But geezus, have an issue with unreset readiness monitors and you're public enemy #1, can't pass emissions and it's a very difficult fix. The testing station doesn't care at all what's coming out of your tailpipe; they care that their computer can read your car's computer. That's it. It's sort of like going through airport security. As long as everyone has been screened, nothing can happen. Right? That's how the US does things - make everyone feel good, ignore real problems. And since we're probably VW's largest market, it's just easier to make all their cars US-compliant.

1990C4S 09-26-2015 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74 (Post 8810983)
Over here (in Belgium), emissions are tested during annual technical inspection.
They just put the sensor in the tailpipe and rev it. How does the car know it is being tested?
How could it even pass todays emission standards when it is that much worse than claimed?
Makes me wonder about our tech inspections.....

If simple tailpipe checks were effective and all encompassing then the EPA would test all cars that way.....look at the equipment UWV needed to test the diesel cars, there's a reason they didn't simply sniff the tailpipe.


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