^^^^^^^^^ Sounds reasonable.

this

+1....first thing that pops in my mind EVERY time one of these events occur.

It's drug roulette pure and simple...

Not trying to be a douche, but you are in the field, right? I don't recall in all the yrs here having remembered you being associated w/ the med. community.

That is JUST ME. NOT THROWING STONES...Thx for the input and carry on...

My Son shoots for his HS clay target team. Had a meeting tonight - lasted over 2 hours. Safety and responsibility are the most important aspects of the training. The other theme that has prevailed over the past several years is that the team is a family. All kids will shoot and it is the culture for the upperclassmen to take the young ones under their wing and shepherd them. I can only imagine if this team was like the football team or the basketball team where hazing seems the norm, how a young kid could go off. The kids have a code of conduct to adhere to including no selfies with a gun. There is a long list - that one seemed to stand out in my head.

This team took second at state and 4th nationally. They never talk about winning, they talk about the team. I wonder if POTUS would let his daughters shoot on the team?

One of his online screen-names was "Lithium_Love"

The kid had mental issues - medicated or not. The failure rests with the medical system not the guns he shot.

Nutter.

Umpqua Gunman Chris Harper-Mercer Hated Religion Online - The Daily Beast

Doctors and medicines cannot cure everyone. Mental illness is particularly difficult to treat, the conditions and their mechanisms are not well understood. Given our current state of medical knowledge, you have to assume that a large percentage of people with mental illnesses will not be successfully treated. Even when the "medical system" does everything "right".

It also isn't clear yet if he was indeed diagnosed or treated for mental illness, or if it rose to a level that should have prevented him from having guns.

Even if it did, the current gun control system does not do a particularly good job of preventing gun purchases by persons with mental illness, or with criminal history for that matter. That's been repeatedly demonstrated. Every couple of months, in fact.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I guess I am really getting old but the problem lies with the internet, X-Box and cell phones. Any shiny bauble to seduce kids into sitting on their asses all farking day and purchasing Monster Energy products. Hey, it gives the folks space, right?

WTF happened to 12 year old's, without their folk's help, rounding up 10 kids to play a sandlot game for six hours? Today, how many killer BB hoops are erected in six figure income hoods where there is no activity? Squillions.

Also, don't foster blowing cooties out through physical activity, just nuke them with Adderall and Citalopram.

That's my opinion.

(Granted the kid was out there)

Facts are, higher population adjust accordingly with number of those with mental illness. So one time Small Town, USA of 5,000 with maybe 20 mental cases now a population of 50,000 will have 200 to worry of. That 200 is far more alarming than the few of years ago.

Next, the shootings and murders by the mental ill are a VERY small percentage compared to gang and typical perpetrator motives. Look at Chicago this last Sept. of 60 murdered. Most are from gang related.

Quote JYL

Even if it did, the current gun control system does not do a particularly good job of preventing gun purchases by persons with mental illness, or with criminal history for that matter. That's been repeatedly demonstrated. Every couple of months, in fact.[/QUOTE]

Above is the sort of gun control I'd like to see stepped up. A more through check on folks wanting to buy weapons. To try to filter out folks with personal / legal history's making it high risk for them to be armed. This at ALL POINTS OF PURCHASE!
I know there are folks who feel that any more intrusion in the process of purchase is a violation of their constitutional rights. But more effort at keeping weapons out of the hands wackos like this is needed.

Blast away.
Richard

Not a douche-like question. Always valid to check the bona-fides of others.

21 years Intensive Care (General, Cardiothoracic Surgical and general cardiac), with quite a bit of general "Hospitalist" work mixed in.
(4 years of residency rotations before that, but that remains a blur of night duty, unpaid overtime and caffeine)

Cheers

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you predicting we'll learn of a history of depression being treated with SSRIs? The guy is clearly mentally disturbed, so that's not much of a stretch.

agree with the comment on video games, etc.

Quite the cocktail of drugs and violence brewing in homes everywhere. First they fantasize about daily for hours on end, then they do it for real. There should be no shock here.

You want to eat these words yet?

[QUOTE=aap1966;8818787] I appreciate you background and clinical explanation, but that still doesn't make the "roulette" part of the equation invalid imo....YMMV.

One thing I learned a LONG time ago....(when in my field, communications protocols were being debated by PHD's with WAY more experience/knowledge than I).....sometimes they just turn out to be wrong ;)

This Internet thingy is proof....it's based upon pretty simple protocols that some "experts" dismissed 25 years ago....

Your theory is

"I will speculate that this was a deliberate attack on a college where a US service member attended as retribution for the foiling of the train shooter in France a couple months ago... probably not white and most likely a Muslim."

What facts have come out that support this theory?

The guy has/had a dating profile on Spiritual Passions.
His user name was Ironcross45.

This is probably where the report of "mixed race" comes from, however the captures at archive.com shows that the dating profile was changed several times - after he was dead. Allegedly the ethnicity and the political views, among other items, were changed.
BREAKING: Internet Trolls Altered Chris Harper Mercer's Online Profile Today - Now Says He's "Conservative"


From the NYT:
Mercer was a withdrawn young man who neighbors said wore the same outfit every day — combat boots, green Army pants and a white T-shirt — and was close to his mother, who fiercely protected him.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/chris-harper-mercer-umpqua-community-college-shooting.html


I will speculate that he was a 'mommas boy' who was always sheltered from every aspect of life, a social cripple who was isolated from friendships and normal human interaction, and who lashed out to get the attention that he had been deprived of by being raised as a recluse. That, or he's just batschit crazy.

Neighbors of where he lived with his Mom said after news of the shooting broke - his mother was balling her eyes out.

Also, the father was located and said a few words to the media and he had an English accent....but could have also been Irish...hard to tell with just a few sentences he uttered....

But Ssri use is on the rise globally and you don't see this rise in violence against groups of people in other (stable) countries. UK. Iceland has one of the highest uses, where are all the Icelandic shootings?

Almost certainly though tied to the govt/prison/medical systems (which in many cases of psychiatric disorders are all involved) failing everyone. And culture. And ease of access to guns by people who in retrospect clearly shouldn't have them.

Not sure how that archive site works, and I can't seem to get it to work for me, but it may reflect how many times the site was archived, not how many times it was modified.

"This calendar view maps the number of times Spiritual Passions: ironcross45 - Doesn't Like Organized Religion, Left-hand Path, Magick and Occult, Meditation, Not Religious, But Spiritual was crawled by the Wayback Machine, not how many times the site was actually updated."

With regard to the claim of being mixed-race, according to the Daily Beast:

Gary Evans, 62, who was married to Mercer’s aunt, told The Daily Beast in a phone interview that when Mercer came into the world, his birth father was not in the picture.

“They were separated when I first met them, and I don’t believe they ever were married,” Evans said.

The father is Caucasian, Evans said, while Mercer’s mother, Laurel Harper, is black.

Every one of the crawls generates a snapshot of what the page looked like when it was crawled. You can click on any of those links to see the snapshot of the crawl.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443807039.jpg


That being said, I looked at a few just now and they all seem the same to me. I guess thegatewaypundit.com lied to us.

Most of my friends and family are anti-gun. This is what I posted on FB today:

I'm going to lift my personal ban on FB political speech for a day with this statement: There is a difference between fighting gun culture and fighting gun violence, and until the American left stops using guns as a proxy in their culture wars, nothing will be done.
It seems that those on the left envision American gun culture as a small, isolated group of wingnuts. And they're baffled when this seemingly small group defeats their efforts repeatedly. They chalk this up to the 'power of the NRA', and move on to trying the same thing over and over again. But American gun culture is not small. Its as American as apple pie. You're not trying to remove a mole, you're cutting at the toughest sinews of American culture with a butter knife. Shouting 'ban guns' is like shouting 'ban the Ford Mustang'. And every time you do it, more money flows into the coffers of the pro-gun lobby. You are the perfect foil. You are the dragon that they use to rally their troops. The NRA doesn't hate the American left. They love you.

So as a thought experiment, what would you do if you knew that the existing background check system would never be expanded, and 'assault weapons' will never be banned? Is your answer, 'I'd throw my hands up in despair, take my marbles and go home'? I doubt it. Regardless of your viewpoint, I think everyone knows that gun violence can be reduced. And it can be reduced without onerous new laws and expansions of Federal power. But it requires getting beyond slogans, being able to have honest conversations about HIPPA, and the rights of both parties in domestic abuse situations, and race, and economic disparities. When we can be honest enough with ourselves as a people to recognize that gang members in south chicago killing one another is not the same problem as a schizophrenic 20 something shooting up a school, we will finally make progress.

is "mixed race" a bad thing?
if so, why?

nope...the babes are often stunning..
otherwise..
it's a confusing // hard card to play..

Rika

It isn't and clearly most don't turn out like that punk (who doesn't look mixed to me)
A friend, who is proud of her Son's choice, this is them YESTERDAY. Notice the smiles, warm(although she is freezing up there & happy. We won't be reading negative stories about this "mixed race" young man.
Sorry, just felt the need to share something positive.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443809882.jpg

This is a really good start in the right direction, IMO.

Certainly here in Canada people are again pointing fingers at the entire USA and saying "ban guns, haven't you got the message yet?". I've long argued that gun control won't solve anything, whether it's here or there, because the people obeying the law aren't the problem. The problem is much, much worse than that, and much more ingrained, IMO.

You're right when you refer to it as a gun culture. I would take that a step further and argue that America is a violent culture - violence is in your DNA, and it has been throughout its history.

I get that mine is an outsider's viewpoint, which has it's pros and cons, and I don't mean to be disrespectful. But the US murder rate, incarceration rate, violent crime rate, etc. is the highest of all first-world countries - the rates are up there with such lovely places as Rwanda, Yemen and Niger. Until steps are taken to change the culture of violence in the US, these kinds of massacres will continue. True, it doesn't help that there are over 300 million firearms in circulation in the country - that makes getting ones hands on them WAY easier than would be the case here, but that's only a symptom of the problem, not the root.

Not a bad thing but it can suck, for example, you get to hear the bigoted **** from both ends and it can really screw with your sense of self at a young age.

You never really feel like you "belong" anywhere, you are often uncomfortably out of place.

you know ST..
I see you as a fellow X German first ..
the rest matters not..

Rika

this bigoted **** is inherent in portions of this post. you don't have to look very hard .....

Well there's your problem. The left sees "gun culture" as a bunch of paranoid strict constitutionalists who think any limit whatsoever on any citizen's freedom to own and carry guns threatens their ability to fight off the coming government tyranny. Case in point - the president of the Buckeye Firearms Association stated in an interview that one should not be required to show any competence for carrying a gun. He believes it's an absolute constitutional right and can't be infringed. You can be required to take a driver's test because driving isn't a right, but there is no need to show you know one end of a gun from the other because you have a 2nd amendment right to carry one no matter how incompetent you are.

It's not baffling at all. The NRA is not a small group. It is rich and powerful and owns a lot of politicians.

1% of the population? Their membership rolls fluctuate quite a bit year to year, I think their highest was 4.5 million. Not exactly a huge percentage of the population.

I wasn't trying to talk about gun control itself, I was trying to point out how broken the language has become surrounding the issue. I don't think many liberals see the difference between attacking gun culture and attacking gun violence.

bingo!..
throwing sensible legal owners into the same mix's ..
as violent criminals who use guns..
or the mentally ill..
will get them nowhere...
and just increase sales of same..
were we say lock'm up..
they say ...give'm another chance..
and the Medical info..
which should probably be shared is fraught with mines & likely abuse..

Rika

Yup.

Bravo!!! Excellent little treatise on the nature of the problem with the left's perceptions, which drive their so-called "solutions". The left will never be able to hold an honest discussion about "gun" violence, because it is really "people" violence, and some of their most cherished groups of people are at the center of it.

I have to just laugh and shake my head every time I read or hear some left-leaning, hand wringing ninny's view of the NRA. From the outside looking in, of course. They see the NRA as some gun industry owned lobbying group - nothing could be further from the truth. The NRA is about 4 to 5 million gun owners operating at a very grassroots level to promote responsible gun ownership, gun safety, and the shooting sports.

Yes, we have also (unfortunately) been forced to spend a fair amount of time and money defending our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Yes, industry kicks in and supports this fight as well, but they are far from the center, or the backbone, of this organization.

We do hire paid, professional lobbyists. We do have folks who do nothing else than keep watch over legislative proceedings. This is borne out of a desire for self preservation, and the preservation of our rights. Aside from that, however, our true power, our real clout, lies with a very politically savvy and active membership. NRA members write a lot of letters, a lot of emails, and make a lot of phone calls in keeping in touch with our elected representatives. We make our voices heard, loud and clear. It's not so much our lobbyists that our representative listen to, it's us - their constituents that elected them, just as it should be. That is our real power.

As far as having any sort of "competency" test prior to exercising one's Constitutionally acknowledged (as opposed to granted) rights, which others would our liberal friends like to encumber with this sort of requirement? Free speech? One cannot speak freely and openly until passing a test that verifies one is competent to do so? How about voting? Hell, our liberal friends would just as soon no one even have to prove citizenship to do that...

There is real danger in the notion that our government has the right, or the charter, to test its citizens before "granting" them certain rights. First and foremost, our Bill of Rights "grants" nothing - it simply reaffirms the rights all men intrinsically hold, above and beyond any authorities' moral authority to regulate and/or impinge upon those rights. Secondly, once allowed to step over onto that slippery slope of government "granted" rights, the rules and requirements to attain those rights invariably tighten and get ever more strict, until no one can pass muster.

So, no, our government has no authority (given it legally, anyway) to impose requirements to be met prior to firearms ownership. Our right to do so exists on a level higher than our government - it is one of the most basic of human rights to be able to defend one's self and loved ones. Until one is a convicted felon, or declared insane, our government needs to just stay out of it.

Oh, and the same can be said for its insistence that it must license us to travel... but that's a discussion for another day...

The most important thing to remember is that there is nothing that can be done to prevent these mass shootings, says the only country in the world where they keep happening. :rolleyes:

So what is your plan to stop it?

I am disappointed in the NRA. It is the self-proclaimed protector of the Second Amendment and the foremost firearms education organization in the country. It has a lobbyist arm second to none.

Where is it on the issue of mentally unstable citizens legally acquiring guns and killing people?

Why is it not out front as the best champion of gun owners with ideas and solutions on how to fix this truly critical issue?

It is the single best equipped organization to offer concrete solutions but it's silent.

Disappointed that the entire debate is purely reactionary with no proactive engagement of the public and of government to fix this problem.