A BLack Curtain is Coming Down

[tabs]

The War on Terrorism has been lost. The US got it wrong in the very begining by calling it a war on Terrorism. It is most rightly called a Civil War within the Muslim Religion and the battle ground slops over into the West. For the arguement in the Muslim world is how to deal with the Modern World that was wrought by Western Civiliazation. On top of that is the Sectarian conflict beteen *****e and Sunni factions and which one will prevail.

The failure of America as the LEADER of the Western world is largely Systematic. American leadership very mindset and way of approaching problems has doomed Amercia to failure. The Amercican mindset is Goal Orientated or Quanatative in nature as represented by our bureaucratic, hierarchial structures. . We need benchmarks in order to gauge our success and have forgotten the spiritual or human side of the drama. This is where our enemy has found Americas Achillies Heal.

In the past year the unraveling of the International System has become apparent with a number of policy failures coming home to roost. The litany of failure is as follows.

1. This past summer the Taliban was able to reorganize and launch an offensive in Afganistan, and seems to have taken a que from the Iraqie Insurgents by implementing suicide bombers. Along with the War Lords retaining automous control of their regions, and resurgence of the Poppy Trade Afgan is out of control.

Further on this front Pakistan has surrendered to Terrorism in their NW Provinces by signing a Truce with the Tribal Leaders in the area. This failure of Pakistan looms large as the fundlementalists in Pakistan are slowly gaining the edge over more moderate voices. In pakistan one man stands between an Islamic State with Nuclear weapons friendly to Al Qaeda and one whose cooperation has led to MOST of Americas successes against Terrorism.

And if that is not enough the Bush Admin has disbanded the Intel Task force that was hunting for Bin Laden. However Congress saw fit to recall the unit to action.

2. Talks with N Korea have broken down, along with the testing of a N Korean Intercontiential Ballastic Missle which could reach American soil. To which the extra American military presence needed to quell the situation if need be is tied up elsewhere.

3. The liberation of Iraq from tyranny has resulted in a breakdown of society pitting Sunni vs *****e Muslim Sects in what can optimistically be called a smouldering Civil War. The larger danger is that the conflict will spread beyond the borders of Iraq and engulf the entire region in war. With this liklihood looming America doesn't dare remove it military presence for fear of a Global Economic Collapse, with the interuption of the supply of oil to the developed world. .

Further the duly elected leadership in Iraq has embraced Iran as brothers in arms. While the USA is trying to limit Nuclear Prolifiration to Iran.

4. President Bushes call for Democracy in the ME has dealt him a twist of fate, in that Hamas ( Terrorist Organization) has won a popular election in the Gaza Strip.

5. Iran with the downfall of Sadam has been increasingly flexing its Political muscle to further its political ambitions. This past summer it directed its surrogate Lebanonese army Hezzbola to attack Israel by kidnapping Israelie Soldiers and launching missle attacks all the while calling for the destruction of Israel. Even the Israelie offense against Hezzbola in the end seemed ineffectual.

Iran has thwarted every effort by the International community to have them halt development of Nuclear weapons. America has again been shown to be an impotent giant on the world stage. Again it is partially due to its military forces being tied down elsewhere. The other large part is the fracture of the old Alliance system, the inability of the UN to do anything but talk, and everynation looking out for their own short term interests instead of the longer term one of limiting the spread of Nuclear Weapons.

6. Many of Americas European allys have large Muslim populations which resist assimilation into the general population. In many of these communities spring the recruits to Jihad. This past summer the French authorities were powerless ot quell riots in their Muslim areas. Brits of Pakistani hertiage were found to be plotting an aerial attack on the US. The result of this is that the Foreign Policies of these nations can be changed in an instant with an attack by these groups, as the attack on the railway system in Spain has demostrated.

7. Americans themselves seemingily have lost the will to fight to sacrafice anything of their hedonistic lifestyle to save themselves. The American body politic itself is fractious, with infighting becoming ever louder while the world spirals out of control before their very eyes.

[nostatic]

u mean it isn't mission accomplished?

[tabs]

No it means We are fked!!!

[turbo6bar]

I told my pops we are losing the war on terrorism after the recent terror plot was 'foiled' in England. He ignored me. I think he doesn't respect me any more, or maybe, he knows I'm right.

[tabs]

In the past couple of months I have become blacker than black about the proscution of the war on Islamic Jihad. The ineffectualness of America, the seeming unstopable spread of radical Islam and the shamless abdication of the Danes, French, Spanish, Pakistanis and now the Pope at offending a group of fanatical zealots bent on mayhem if they don't get their way.

During the Cold War both sides played by the rules. Neither side wanted to push the other very far for a single miscalculation would assure mutual destruction. Troublesome problems were pushed under the rug, aftere the fall of the Soviets these troublesome problems have crept out from under the rug. For America the rules don't apply anymore because the enemy doesn't play by any set of rules except for the one about killing your enemy anyway U can. Thus our inability to adapt has caused an unraveling of the order of things and the world to start a spiral into total chaos.

NOw jsut maybe the face of this new post Cold War World is one of Chaos and we will just have to learn to live with the uncertainity of life as we know it. Today we may all be driving our SUVs to work, eating at McDonalds and owning a Ranch style house in the suburbs watching the Superbowl on our Big Screen TVs and tommorow the wife might be pulling a plow to help feed the family, before she goes down to the river to wash the cloths. U just never know in the face of such uncertainity.

[Hoots]

Originally posted by tabs
tommorow the wife might be pulling a plow to help feed the family, before she goes down to the river to wash the cloths. U just never know in the face of such uncertainity.

Finally, she will be working

[fast924S]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1211228663574416724&q=Obsession&hl=en


Check it out

[nostatic]

I guess i better order more ammo...

[kach22i]

Tabs used to be so neocon.............the old days.

[Moneyguy1]

tabs...

Expect a late night visit from our very own sabre rattler....

QUISLING!!!!!

TRAITOR!!!

(say it isn't so) LIBERAL SURRENDER MONKEY!!!

[Joeaksa]

So America is the direct cause for the loss of the entire world to the Islamic hordes? Its all our fault and we might as well kill ourselves now and end it early? Sorry but not going to buy that.

Would somewhat agree that the Western Civilizations are all somewhat to blame, but we did not totally start this, the Moslems have always wanted to take over, we just seem to do something stupid that gives them a reason to push ahead. Read the Koran and you will see that it calls for the "faithful to continually try to get new members and if someone does not want to join the fold, that they are an infidel, and thus to be slain." Islam has been the fastest growing religion for years, and yes, its the religion of the poor and uneducated in many cases.

Well ladies and gents, someday the "masses" who have not become a Moslem around the world will realize that we have three choices. Embrace Islam and become part of the borg, always growing and getting larger and larger with ever minute, fight against the movement where-ever we see it or be classified as infidels and be killed in the end.

This so called "unstoppable spread of Islam" can be stopped, just as it was during the Cruisades. it just takes people to realize that its either stop them or die, then get to work saving our lives and future.

For some silly reason many of us do not see much of a choice and I am sure as hell not going to give in.

[livi]

Ah, the blinders are off again, serving yet another insightful reality check from tabs.

Although I believe you are basically correct - I start to worry about you tabs. I hope the pessimism and darkness in your pm´s have not started to take a toll on your faith and well being.

Will you be running for President ? And if so - what will be your first actions on this agenda ?

[Aurel]

Tabs,

I think your analysis is spot on, but what worries me is that you do not seem to see a solution to the problem at hand. You hit the nail on the head when you see that the true problem is the rise of radicalism within the muslim religion. However, you seem to discount the influence that the moderate muslims can have on their radicalized peers. And you also seem to see the large muslim population in Europe as a threat reather than a possible source of the solution.

This is where I will digress with your analysis and state that muslims do assimilate and become westernized. The demonstrations in France by muslims against the riots, and the attempts of the older ones to calm the younger ones were a good sign. Where the problem lies, as always, is in the formation of ghettos, and the lack of economical hope for these populations. But a large fraction of them are well assimilized citizen.

The muslim religion is pretty much at the same stage the christian religion was 500 years ago. Change does not happen overnight, but the tensions and conflicts occuring within the muslim world are a sign that this change is on the way. As in many cases, the change can start in the familly unit, and women are the major engine for this change. There is no mystery why they are so opressed in the ME. The ones in Europe do enjoy the liberty society offers for them, and acts of violence against women are not tolerated the way they are in the ME. Hence, they are more able to change the mentality of their husbands, who in turn can say F u to the immams.

Aurel

[fintstone]

It is indeed difficult..especially when the country is not willing to sacrifice lives or money towards the goal...and Congress is diverting the limited funds and personnel we have to fight the war for political purposes...As Tabs mentioned...to look for Bin Laden when we have not heard from him in years...they are diverting troops in the field helping fight enemies with weapons to look for an scared old man in hiding disguised as a woman.....Just so they can say they are. Obviously if we had a single lead to his whereabouts we would be there...but to have a bunch of folks standing around with their thumb up their ass waiting for that lead is silly...and just political masturbation. If anything will turn up his whereabouts, it will be the reward...greed transcends all.

Yes, the answer is women. If they cut all Muslim men off for one generation (obviously the rest of us can pick up the slack as needed)...the problem will end.

[svandamme]

somebody tell me something i didn't know allready

[tabs]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
So America is the direct cause for the loss of the entire world to the Islamic hordes? Its all our fault and we might as well kill ourselves now and end it early? Sorry but not going to buy that.

This so called "unstoppable spread of Islam" can be stopped, just as it was during the Cruisades. it just takes people to realize that its either stop them or die, then get to work saving our lives and future.

Western Civilization has been very successfull, its technology, culture, business and social structures have spread throughout the world. The problem comes when this culture is introduced into the medievel tribal world of the Muslim of the ME and Central Asia. It is here the clash occurs beween those who accept and embrace the changes the modern world offers and those who want to keep their traditional values at all costs. So it is the reaction of elements of Muslim society that is the cause of the "war" and not the West per say.

Islam was stopped by Charles Martel at the battle of Tours in the 700s and by the Polish Army before the gates of Vienna in the 1600s if I am correct on my dates. The Crusades was an invasion of Palestein (Holy Land) by Europeans which was eventually repeled by the Muslims.

[tabs]

Originally posted by Aurel
Tabs

This is where I will digress with your analysis and state that muslims do assimilate and become westernized

Aurel

Isn't it ironic then that most fo the 911 Suicide Bombers had spent time being "assimilated" into western society before they became suiciide bombers. Also the latest round of Brits of Pakistani heritage that were planning mayhem.

There is something about the culture and or personality of young Muslim men when imersed in Western Culture that leads them to Islamic Jihad against the west. It is a revulsion of Western ideas and reversion to the traditional Islamic religion that takes place.

[tabs]

Originally posted by fintstone
It is indeed difficult..especially when the country is not willing to sacrifice lives or money towards the goal...and Congress is diverting the limited funds and personnel we have to fight the war for political purposes...As Tabs mentioned...to look for Bin Laden when we have not heard from him in years...they are diverting troops in the field helping fight enemies with weapons to look for an scared old man in hiding disguised as a woman.....Just so they can say they are. Obviously if we had a single lead to his whereabouts we would be there...but to have a bunch of folks standing around with their thumb up their ass waiting for that lead is silly...and just political masturbation. If anything will turn up his whereabouts, it will be the reward...greed transcends all.

Well so far $25M hasn't tempted anyone to out Bin Laden.

Fint do U buy everything the Bush admin has to say, while I agree with most of what they say and think they are doing a pretty good job overall, they are just full of it on certain things.

Bin Laden maybe a scared old woman hiding as a man but he is a symbol of defiance to the Islamic world. The best possible scenerio is that we capture him like we did Sadam, hiding in a hole in the ground. That would take away alot of his mystique.

AL Zawahari MD on the other hand is a complete ideolog, who inspires absolue hate for the West. He more than Bin Laden is a dangerous foe. He must be taken out of play.

[Taz's Master]

tabs, if you really believed in the position you are defending, you wouldn't be preaching from Las Vegas. You'd relocate to a place where you could survive without air conditioning, and there was land to plow and a river to wash in, and water to drink. I'll assume you believe your doomsday scenarios when you put your money where your mouth is. Until then, why should I believe you when you don't believe yourself?

[5axis]

Originally posted by tabs

There is something about the culture and or personality of young Muslim men when imersed in Western Culture that leads them to Islamic Jihad against the west. It is a revulsion of Western ideas and reversion to the traditional Islamic religion that takes place.

They "gots no game" and can't get laid?

Perhaps the whole "freewill thing" is a bit much for them? I like to believe I can tell anyone, even God to go eFF themselves if I choose to.
And that's my $.02
I will just kick back and let you big brained folks figure this mess out.