Water colors only mix with Rain
 

The short, - What is red line for speed for a C 130? (Net says 450 knts I think)
Next,- How fast with auxiliary help (Jayto Rockets) can the thing go?
Ok long story..if you wish to participate-;)
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I am not too much for war stories but i think I smell a boat load of BS here .Read on.
I was sitting having a beer the other night-
I was next to and over hearing this conversation- this guy was talking to a young man about his air force tour (nam) AHEM
I never said a thing about me, just listened to how he a was a full bird Col, promoted in field etc.
IDK... dont rally care.
I would tune in and tune out..
I was army (helicopters) and do not know too much about the air force .
I did most my time Cantho Army air field.
The C130 Planes came and went. None were Air force, afaik. (But it was along long time ago)
They did use rockets at times to get going. Pretty dam impressive !
Now for my question in context. The part that I think is all BS!
The supposed Vet was telling these stories to this young man of about 28, and he was just soaking it up! The old pilot was sharing a few...with him...ahem
He now says was he pumped out tin foil particles to detour enemy rockets fired at the C 130 at times. :eek: ????
Well IDk, us slow pokey helicopter guys kept a couple Wily Petes close at hand for a supposed rocket derailment..there was the rumor there would be a BEEP BEEP over the radio if one was homing in.We were to pull the pin and chuck out one of those !....LOL
I never experienced it and know no one that lived to tell....
So next, this Vet tells if after after tossing tin foil somehow fails to side track rocket(s), .. he would hit his Jato rockets and attain 600 MPH and out run it.....or evade it , gain altitude so fast it could not keep up!
I say BS!
I do not see how that much time could pass with out being just lots of small parts all over the Delta.
To me 600 MPH is snails pace even if the big C130 could jump to that speed...i see no way that would detour a SAM or other rocket of that time..
Your thoughts?

Well, truth and fiction often merge after a few.

So.

Chaff and flares have been standard counter missile technology for a bit. They can even "tune" the chaff (essentially metal particles) for certain threats. Flares as well.

Chaff for missiles with radar seeking guidance, flares for heat seeking missiles. Both for some interesting threats.

Now, JATO stands for jet-assisted take off. The only way a C-130 (one of the great aircraft of all time IMHO) could reach 600kts indicated would be if the Airspeed Indicator was broken.

Redline is, depending on the model, 380kts or so. I do not know what max VNE is, but I imagine it is not at issue.

One of the guys I used to work with for a short while was a gent named Fred Ferguson (Medal of Honor recipient in Vietnam flying a Huey). Never talked about the war unless you asked him. He said he used avoid VFW meetings and the like because you never met a cook or truck driver, everybody was a hero. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but coming from him I understood his meaning.

When some guys starts out his story as: "There I was, inverted, air medals dangling in my face..." you can usually walk the other way.

Truth and beer..pretty sure he was repeating parts of what he had heard elsewhere...
How is / was tin foil ejected ?
From what i can barely remeber, if a rocket was fired, one might have 3 to 4 sec at the most to do something..
Not a lot of time for a couple of options..

200 MPH of BS.....JATO (acronym for jet-assisted take off)

Chaff and Flairs are in a 20 pack with both shell mixed together .....Like 2 inches X4 inches, Like a big shot gun shell.

chaff defeats a radar directed threat, for which they do have early warning. Chaff is a very effective anti-radar guided missile defense.
The tinfoil from the chopper, well worth a try I guess lol

I am a real infantry combat vet..Nam 69-70. I despise the POS who lie about being there. They have no idea of the suffering,pain and fear .

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They fire much like the flare...from dispensers:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1445144805.jpg
Chaff and flare dispensers.

It always sorta bothered me that JATO ("jet-assisted take-off") was used to refer to rockets (not jets) assisting the takeoff / roll.

Heck, EVERY takeoff roll in a C130 is "jet assisted" when you think about it. If it ain't, you ain't goin no place! Following that logic, the jets are necessary, the rockets are doing the assisting.

Shouldn't it be "RATO"? Or if you really want to sound cool, just refer to them as "SRBs" (STS reference) :p

130s are turboprop. RATO is/was used interchangeably with JATO at one time.

I don't know a lot about C-130s - obviously. When I worked as an engineer, over a period of a couple of years our lab was given some large carbon fiber panels to assess - rain erosion, BDA, etc. We were told they were experimental access panels for C-130s, and you don't ask questions. A few years later the F-117 flew in to be put in the Air Force Museum and I went down to take a look - whadda ya know, there was our panel. The "C-130 access panel" was really an F-117 landing gear door.

That's a red flag. My gramps was a USAF full bird Col. in Vietnam, and can tell you he had a desk job! haha Jap pow in the second war, really cool guy.
My uncle was a Major in Vietnam as well, he got stuck in B-52's, and later silo's. Once you're a full bird col. in the AF they really do not get sent out in harms way, or let you fly anymore for that fact.

Good one! ;)

First of all, thanx to everyone for all the information and for the video in action.
I had zero for clues how the rocket derailment worked.
This supposed vet had more stories and experiences then i had forgot !
The 600 knot story pretty much confirmed a BS story..But I did not know .Our old Hueys was comfortable at a thump thum along at p 80 LOL . We were farting around one day and put one to 120, it was poping pretty good even from inside. LOL
We certainly were not ever going to out run a feathered bird much less a rocket!
Next time i see this person, I am going to ask for his DD214 .I will explain "stolen Valor "and want him to clarify.
I am betting he gets MAD as hell and squirms a lot.
This pelican site of Wayne's has all the information a person would ever need. A lot of talented and experienced people here.
Thanx!

Outrun a rocket? Nope, not unless it was fired from a Nerf gun.

OP, your instincts were right. That guy is full of crap. Ive got several thousand C-130 hours. Air Force version. JATO was never used in flight, only take-off. It maybe was used in nam, but in my time JATO is only used by Fat Albert on the Blue Angels demo team and possibly the ski birds that operate in the arctic. Air Force C-130s had no defensive counter measures like chaff until around the late 90's, early 2000's. 600 kts would rip the wings right off, and like mentioned, JATO is only for take off assist. I cant remember what the red line is. Its never a factor on that plane. High 300's at low altitude. Did the guy also say he "once lost all four engines, started the "goat" and flew home sideways"? Thats a old, dumb, C-130 joke.

True, still turbine-powered. I think "RATO" is more technically correct. I suppose a rocket does emit a jet of hot gasses to produce thrust so "JATO" is not completely inappropriate but since most people equate "jet" with "turbojet" or "turbofan" it's a bit misleading.

Damn cool aircraft. The DC-3 of our time.

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Thanx!
During my conundrum to post my question last night-
i was watching those on youtube or somewhere .
Pretty impressive !
They had rockets all over the thing so as to almost hover, for "air breaks" and for launch.

I did not work on the C-130s until the mid to late '80s and they were all special ops versions that were reconfigured and reengined...so not an expert on the regular "garbage haulers" (what we called the plain Jane versions). Great aircraft in my humble opinion. I did not fly aircrew a lot, but when I did, it was amazing with what the aircrew was able to do with that plane. It was like flying in a schoolbus with a giant engine...and seemed that all laws of physics were suspended as they came down hard and fast and slammed it into a tiny little, rough runway or took off from the same doing evasive maneuvers. These always made me a little sick as they where like the worst roller coaster ever...plus the A/C cut out during "emergency" maneuvers and it got really hot and the back end where I sat filled with the smell of burning rubber, exhaust (I guess) and urine (until someone threw up)...then that. It always felt like we were crashing to me. The back end was always the worst place to be during these maneuvers and the crew swore that they would make me throw up...but they never did.

We seemed to get some of the top pilots (or maybe they were just cowboys), but they told me that any landing was just a "controlled crash" and flew that way. The first time I flew (Can't remember if was Italy or Spain as we went to both that trip), they were practicing "Combat touch and go's" where we dropped rapidly from pretty high altitude, touched the runway (bounced a couple times and then climbed away as rapidly as possible to altitude while turning sharply to the right or left over the ocean to come back and do it again. Finally, one of the "regular crew" threw up and called up front and told them to stop because "someone was sick"...when we landed, the guys up front were all laughing when we got off and told me they were sorry to make me sick, but the Lt (who was a regular crewmember) then got off all green and admitted he was the one and I got the last laugh.

I did work on the F-4 early in my career and it did have chaff & flare dispensers similar in many ways to the photo of the C-130 version above. We had photoflash cartridges installed in the RF-4C that were like a giant flash bulb for the camera's...but the big flash made them very easy to shoot down as they flew right down on the deck at almost treetop level...so eventually, they just went to infrared and radar mapping systems at night and went with chaff/flare.

Those Navy aviation guys sure seem to take a lot of photos of themselves...pretending/wishing they were in the Air Force. But, I can really blame them.

I just want to know when the Navy started operating B2s

We were just joking. I don't think anyone who really served resents anyone else who did...or the service they were in.

I have never heard of a "field promotion" in the AF (maybe WW2 or Korea). I have also never heard of one for an officer in any service.

I did just read that they just gave A1C Spencer Stone, who was the guy (hero) who recently stopped the terrorist attack on the train bound for Paris, is being promoted from airman first class (E-3) to staff sergeant (E-5) for that. I was pretty annoyed by that...and I imagine a lot of guys in their 5th tour of getting shot at were as well. Just the medals he got put him far ahead of most for promotion.

There's an aerial range somewhere between L.A. and Phoenix and occasionally they like to play with chaff. For a while the meteorologists in Phoenix would freak out every time because it was a huge radar return that came out of nowhere and then dissipated quickly.

What I do know is this supposed C130 pilot had seen more action then a special forces soldier.
The part that REALLY caught my atn. was the story of doing the 600 knots and out smarting rockets.
I think he might have exaggerated that a little...
This will be EZ , i will just ask him "lets compare DD214 s " See what he says....
He says he was stationed in Guam ..I am not sure why he would fly a C130 from there when There were two real big Air Force bases in country.
Near water.
Not like Phu Cat or bear Cat. (which I think were AF bases If I remeber correct) which were way inland.
We did Fly into Cam Ranh bay once....
It was pretty unbelievable compared what we had been used to.
Anyway Thats all i know about that and i can prove it.