Home theater auido help. I am so lost

[look 171]

Sometime ago, I posted a question about sound bars. We ended up with a Sam Sung which I am very hsppy with. I thank you guys again for those who helped. Now, the order again has come from the top, my supreme commander. We gutted our family room to make way for the growing family. Since I don't watch much TV and no longer listen to music, I decided that now its the time to wire for a home theater with walls completely open. Kids will like that as they get a little older. New windows, French doors and sound boards will be installed to keep the sound within the room. Don't want to piss off neighbors.

Help me with this. I have no idea what or where to even begin. I talked with my home theater guys that have done work for my clients. They are freaking crazy, 25k for a true theater. I know those numbers because I have written checks to them before.

I like:

A decent system. Bose, Yamaha, don't care.

Simple receiver with up to date that will work with modern TV and whatever

Really like in-wall or ceiling mount speakers. willing to spend a few bucks there. We rather not have actual speakers sitting around. Sub can be mounted under my sofa. Making that myself. 7' build-in sofa with storage down below or it can be mounted in a cavity about 4.5' off the ground with matching speaker fabric to wall color. Plenty of room there.

Its a 17x18' square room, 9' ceiling. 10' triple pane alum clad windows and a 6' french door (window and door effect sound quality?). thinking about dynamat on all walls to keep sound within. Again, love my new neighbor, 29 year old doctor with his young wife who bought out the gay guys. No, not the one with the yelling match in the street. They are gone too, thank goodness.

I read a ton of stuff, only to get info overload. We don't need top of the line products. I like to stay under 5000 bucks without a TV? Any info, tips welcome. Where to buy, what to look for?

anyone heard of Hsu research? Really high end speakers, but good bang for the bucks according to a friend.

[billybek]

Ian (Imcarther) helped me out a great deal with my selection of components and I am very happy with his suggestions.
OTOH, I am unhappy with my home theater amp which was one of my own choosing. Should have listened to Ian.....
The speaker system I have is the Focal Dome series that are ceiling mounted in the rear and configured as a 7.1 surround.
It works very well and plus they look very cool!

[javadog]

Decide what you want. 5.1, 7.1, etc. Learn a little about where the speakers need to go for your chosen system. You can build them into the walls, ceilings, etc. so you don't see them. Design a furniture layout for the room and lay out your system around that.

I put mine in a room that also doubles as a library, as the books and shelves do a great job of deadening the space acoustically. My TV was positioned so that the center of it was at eye height when seated. Front L and R channel speakers are to either side, at the same height, toed in slightly behind grilles. Center speaker is above the TV behind a grill, firing down towards the listeners ears. Rear fill speakers slide down out of the ceiling on tracks, when in use. The sub is in a cabinet to the side and rear (I have a small bar in there. It's also behind a grill, so you don't see it. I do have a window on the rear wall but I also have a heavy, lined drape that comes down when I want, to kill reflections off of the glass.

Pick the speakers carefully. Ditto with the receiver. Buying used might get you a lot of bang for the buck. I went with 5.1, since that's what was out there when I built mine. There are more complicated arrangements now, but 5.1 is good enough for me.

Run wire (conduit is even better) for anything you might want to add later. If you are serious about containing the sound so the neighbors don't hear it, look into how to build acoustically decoupled walls. Basically a second wall surface in front of the outer wall, with a space between the two. Mass is your friend, so multiple layers of sheetrock will be better than wall treatments you add to existing walls.

JR

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by billybek

Ian (Imcarther)

He da man.

[Gus Berges]

For speakers, look at Definitive Technologies, Bowers & Wilkins, or Paradigm. Way under your budget and tons of awards/reviews and much better than Bose.

For amps, consider that this will be like a cell phone in the sense that every other year, a new model comes out that has more features for less money. Don't go crazy for the features you won't need (really need 7+ HDMI inputs? Really need 7.1 channels if setup is only 5.1? etc.) I like Pioneer Elite series or Marantz.

More importantly, re read what javadog wrote, except for the used (just my opinion).

[look 171]

I like to stay around 2-3k if possible, but 5 is the absolutely my tops. anymore then that, its a waste and I can't tell the difference.

I have all type of empty conduits running all over the place to deal with future changes. My plan is bring in a coaxial cable and cat 6 wire to the receiver. Speaker cables do not need to be in conduit? I am thinking 5.1 system. 7.1 maybe over kill, not necessary and I am cheap.

[look 171]

Went to Bestbuys, and the home theater guy show told me the in wall/ceiling speakers we not as good as towers or simply, speakers in a box. The differences are noticeable, even to my untrained ears. Seems that in wall good in wall speakers are 400 bucks a pop. But then again, if they didn't show me the tower but the in wall ones, It would have been good enough. One thing I really liked about what they had there is that you can hear the dialog unlike other cheaper systems, the music or back ground noise is so loud that the dialog is way overshadowed.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

I like to stay around 2-3k if possible, but 5 is the absolutely my tops. anymore then that, its a waste and I can't tell the difference.

I have all type of empty conduits running all over the place to deal with future changes. My plan is bring in a coaxial cable and cat 6 wire to the receiver. Speaker cables do not need to be in conduit? I am thinking 5.1 system. 7.1 maybe over kill, not necessary and I am cheap.

That is IMHO a very reasonable budget for the average home theatre. If you are not an audiophile and just want an entertaining experience it should work.

I spent <$5k on my entire media room including paint, seating, and window treatments.

Apple TV or ROKU plus a DVD / Blu-Ray player covers your media delivery and is sub $200

A good 1080P projector can be had for under $1,000. Top 10 Home Theater Projectors

I prefer projectors to TV's. I think they present movies better and there is something about a screen that just makes the whole experience feel better. That's my personal taste. YMMV.

Now you need to deal with a receiver, as mentioned look for last years close out at deep discount. It's still as good as if you had bought it when it was the new model last year. Figure $500-750 there and it will probably come with speakers.

Don't get hung up on in wall speakers. If you go that route then locate where they will go and box them out before the sheet rock goes up so you don't lose sound to the walls.

Can all be done for $2-3k.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

Went to Bestbuys, and the home theater guy show told me the in wall/ceiling speakers we not as good as towers or simply, speakers in a box. The differences are noticeable, even to my untrained ears. Seems that in wall good in wall speakers are 400 bucks a pop. But then again, if they didn't show me the tower but the in wall ones, It would have been good enough. One thing I really liked about what they had there is that you can hear the dialog unlike other cheaper systems, the music or back ground noise is so loud that the dialog is way overshadowed.

Just be careful there.

A salesman can easily make a great speaker sound worse than an average speaker depending on what inventory he is motivated to move that day.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by look 171

I like to stay around 2-3k if possible, but 5 is the absolutely my tops. anymore then that, its a waste and I can't tell the difference.

I have all type of empty conduits running all over the place to deal with future changes. My plan is bring in a coaxial cable and cat 6 wire to the receiver. Speaker cables do not need to be in conduit? I am thinking 5.1 system. 7.1 maybe over kill, not necessary and I am cheap.

I'm super happy with my Pioneer Elite 5.1 (7.1 was not out yet and I'm not sold on it being necessary)... I also on a budget so for speakers put together a Franken system... I'm not a big JBL fan but at the time they nice satellite speakers... the fronts were a little weak for me so I replaced them with Sony towers and added a CV powered sub (put the JBLs in the bedroom connected to the 'B' channel on the Pioneer).
I would not have picked the JBL's or Sony's but I went into Best Buy and auditioned speakers with my eyes closed and that is what I walked out with.

[scottmandue]

Have you check at Pacific Sales?

I'm kinda the unofficial A/V guy here at work , buy me a beer and I would be happy to go shopping with you

[look 171]

It sounds like Pioneer Elite is good stuff. Someone also suggested it above.

I don't want tower speakers. That's on the order coming from up top. I don't want them neither.

[Cajundaddy]

A few thoughts.
I am more of a pro sound guy than home theater but have set up a few systems for good results. A matched system designed to work together is pretty important.

I like Yamaha electronics and Boston Acoustic speakers for very natural sounding systems. Not boom and sizzle or high end audiophile. Boston makes tower, cabinet, satellite, and in-wall speakers that do sound good and will likely match your needs and budget. Worth a look.
Boston Acoustics US)

Planning speaker placement and acoustic room tuning may have as much or more influence on your sound than the components you choose. Pay close attention to speaker mfg placement recommendations. Sub placement is pretty important if you want smooth bass response without one-note-woof or time delay issues.

Good luck in your adventure.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Have you check at Pacific Sales?

I'm kinda the unofficial A/V guy here at work , buy me a beer and I would be happy to go shopping with you

allright, sounds good to me.

I have not check Pac Sales because I may ended up buying the whole thing from them. the store in Pasadena and I go back a long way. I spend a lot of money there yearly. If you ever need appliances or plumbing fixtures, give me a shout and I will get you my discount.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

That is IMHO a very reasonable budget for the average home theatre. If you are not an audiophile and just want an entertaining experience it should work.

I spent <$5k on my entire media room including paint, seating, and window treatments.

Apple TV or ROKU plus a DVD / Blu-Ray player covers your media delivery and is sub $200

A good 1080P projector can be had for under $1,000. Top 10 Home Theater Projectors

I prefer projectors to TV's. I think they present movies better and there is something about a screen that just makes the whole experience feel better. That's my personal taste. YMMV.

Now you need to deal with a receiver, as mentioned look for last years close out at deep discount. It's still as good as if you had bought it when it was the new model last year. Figure $500-750 there and it will probably come with speakers.

Don't get hung up on in wall speakers. If you go that route then locate where they will go and box them out before the sheet rock goes up so you don't lose sound to the walls.

Can all be done for $2-3k.

In wall speakers need to be block off for better sound?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

It sounds like Pioneer Elite is good stuff. Someone also suggested it above.

I don't want tower speakers. That's on the order coming from up top. I don't want them neither.

Simplest, and best but not cheapest way to deal with that is go projector with screen but use a permeable screen that allows the center channel to be placed behind it.

For front left and right you can simply recess them in the wall.

Rumor has it you may know a thing or two about construction.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

A few thoughts.
I am more of a pro sound guy than home theater but have set up a few systems for good results. A matched system designed to work together is pretty important.

I like Yamaha electronics and Boston Acoustic speakers for very natural sounding systems. Not boom and sizzle or high end audiophile. Boston makes tower, cabinet, satellite, and in-wall speakers that do sound good and will likely match your needs and budget. Worth a look.
Boston Acoustics US)

Planning speaker placement and acoustic room tuning may have as much or more influence on your sound than the components you choose. Pay close attention to speaker mfg placement recommendations. Sub placement is pretty important if you want smooth bass response without one-note-woof or time delay issues.

Good luck in your adventure.

your suggestion is to decide on the speaker and then deal with the placement per mfg.'s suggestion?

The theater room in Bestbuy sounded great when the large tower speakers was on. The sound was clean, not loud like some of the small cheaper (in-wall) speakers. he was talking about failing in the sound with a computer once the system was hooked up. I love the ability to hear the dialog with all back ground noise during a certain part of the movie during demo. I was told that I couldn't get that type of sound with in-walls. only the towers at 1500 bucks a piece.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

In wall speakers need to be block off for better sound?

Typically yes, you want something even as simple as filling the cavity with insulation.

A high end set should come with a rear baffle.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

your suggestion is to decide on the speaker and then deal with the placement per mfg.'s suggestion?

The theater room in Bestbuy sounded great when the large tower speakers was on. The sound was clean, not loud like some of the small cheaper (in-wall) speakers. he was talking about failing in the sound with a computer once the system was hooked up. I love the ability to hear the dialog with all back ground noise during a certain part of the movie during demo. I was told that I couldn't get that type of sound with in-walls. only the towers at 1500 bucks a piece.

Use a projector with screen.

Get a permeable screen fabric.

Place the center channel dead center behind the screen.

That is the optimal way to do it.

The tower sounds better because it's enclosed.

You can achieve better sound from in wall by boxing it in, basically build a cabinet in the wall or simply recess a boxed set.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Simplest, and best but not cheapest way to deal with that is go projector with screen but use a permeable screen that allows the center channel to be placed behind it.

For front left and right you can simply recess them in the wall.

Rumor has it you may know a thing or two about construction.

Projector is a bit burry? I am sure they have come a long way since. I actually like that when tv isn't in use, it goes away.

I love your idea with the placement of center speaker behind screen.

What are the disadvantages of a projector TV. I have never thought about it.