Who will be the future kings of the computer makers?
 

Fortunately I have my HP Pavilion on an extended warranty for 2 years at a cost of $100.
It has several problems after 1.5 years of use. I call HP(Pickup and Return care pack for 2 years). The number I have found with a recorded message says " due to technical difficulties this phone line is experiencing issues". Or words to that effect.

I have noticed in the last few years that Toshiba, Sony,IBM have dropped out of the laptop market. Well I like value and tend to go to IBM compatible as opposed to Apple with the latter being too pricey. I see Asus, Acer and a lot of HP laptops out there but don't want to risk HP again.

Any advice which non Apple laptop product to get? HP printer works fine. I might have to resort to Apple if I have to. I am on the comp. about 2-4 hours a day. I need something that lasts. I know many of you are going to say Apple but I will listen to you anyway...

Do you really NEED a laptop? Will a desktop work? It is easy to replace off the shelf cheap parts in a desktop. If you really need a laptop, I have no advise.

You're asking two questions - the future of personal computer retailing and who currently makes good PCs and laptops.

As to the first question, IBM has been out of the personal computer manufacturing business since 2005 when it sold its laptop unit to Lenovo. Retail personal computers and laptops are really a commodity product these days with little to differentiate the brands and low margins. The action has moved to tablets and the cloud. The future of personal computers and laptops hasn't been written yet, but it will probably come in the form of tablets linked to the cloud, manufactured Google, Microsoft, and Apple.

As to the second question of who makes a robust laptop with good value for the money, I very much like Lenovo. Remember that there are consumer grade laptops and professional grade. Lenovo (unless you go out of your way to buy a consumer grade machine) sells professional grade machines. Professional machines have better internals and are far more robust. Lenovo used to advertise something like their laptops being able to survive an entire can of pop spilled on the keyboard. The T450s is a real workhorse and should last for years. You can find them at good prices if you search the Lenovo outlet long enough and jump on it fast enough. Don't settle for the T540, T440, or the non-s version of the T450. Get their flagship and be done with it.

I define value as the use I get for the cost.

A $300 computer that lasts you a year is less of a value than a $500 computer that lasts 2 years which is less of a value than a $1,000 computer that lasts 5 years.

To counter this, why would I want to spend $1000 on a computer that will last 5 years, but will be "obsolete" in 6 months? For my own personal use, I've purchased 2 laptops in the past 11 years. One was an Alienware (right before Dell bought them) for around $1700 that was a gaming machine. It still works, for the most part. The other is either an HP or Compaq, I'm really not sure off the top of my head. Something kinda crapped out on my Alienware while I was writing a paper a few years back, so I ran to Walmart, grabbed a cheap laptop (sub-$300) and it hasn't had so much as a hiccup since I bought it. Been at least 3 years now.

From my experience, most people who have problems with their computers, it's from their own misuse (visiting questionable sites, poor physical care, downloading things they probable shouldn't, not protecting themselves from intrusion, etc.). Before I got into laptops, I never had issue with any of the desktops I've owned, either; most of which I built myself. Only ever built/bought new ones due to obsolescence/performace issues.

So, I personally feel no need to spend $1000+ on a laptop that has the same internal workings as the sub-$300 Walmart special that will last just as long if taken care of properly.

Acer laptop - I bought this one new at a Black Friday sale in about 2008 or 2009(Win7, 300 GB HD). Paid $399.....Use it all day, everyday.

Used it so much I had to replace the keyboard after I wore all the markings off.......Like it so well, I bought a lightly used one on Ebay for $104 just in case this one quits.....

I also have 2 Acer Aspire One (10 inch netbook) for travel. They rarely get used as seem to be replaced by my tablets.......

I've had great results with the $250-400 Acer or Asus, each works fine and 2-3 yrs of steady use. Office suite and a web browser all I use them for.

We have a ton of HP ProBooks here at work. They do pretty well considering we have staff that can and do break anything and everything. These run between $500 and $700 and last about three years before getting sent as a spare or to the computer lab.

Lenovo has the best quality PC laptops. Apple has the best quality laptops.

Buy as much RAM and storage as you'll ever need. Increasingly these are non-upgradable.

I've had lots of Dells and HPs from work. They all started failing after 2-3 years. We used to get IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads. They never failed me, and I was really sad when the budget weenies switched to HP.

My personal machines are all Macs now, before they were all IBMs. Some friends have new Lenovos and they seem excellent, like the old Thinkpads.

You can run Windows on a Mac.

Note that IBM is moving to Macs. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every-mac-we-buy-is-making-and-saving-ibm-money-ibm.html

I had a poorly built Lenovo through work before - cracking case or whatever the main body is called. Not sure if it was their flagship or not. At home I have had low budget Dells and HPs and have to say the Dells win. Their batteries don't last, but they can be replaced cheaply. HP falls apart on the keyboard and plastic and I had my last one die due to motherboard failure.

For me, laptops are still the thing to get to use around the house. I have zero use for a tablet. They need to be held and you can't type **** on them. They are only for consuming - not interacting or even doing a half way decent text search.

I have no personal laptop currently. I should really buy one. This Lenovo talk has me thinking. I wouldn't mind something a little bigger than my work laptop (Dell Latitude) and a little better than my now broken HP pavilion.

G

Another vote for Dell here. Last 3 have been Dell, purchased from dell factory outlet( http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/22/campaigns/dell_outlet_hot_deals_dfh?dgc=IR&cid=283219&lid=54 42098&~ck=mn ). Look for deals on http://slickdeals.net/

Not sure what you are buying that is obsolete in 6 months.

Something shinier coming out does not make your current PC run any different than it did yesterday.

The average user is not coming close to pushing a modern PC to even half of it's potential.

We use Dell exclusively where I work. They are solid. Not cheap, but they are very reliable once you upgrade to a solid state drive.

Guy: Many of these on Ebay and Amazon:

Acer Aspire 15 6" Laptop Windows 8 Intel Dual Core CPU 4GB RAM 500GB Hard Drive | eBay

Spend a little more for 1 TB drive if you need it. Upgrade to Win 10 and off you go.

Hence the quotations around obsolete...In the IT world (which I believe you are a part of?), something bigger and better is always just around the corner. If I spend a grand on a device, I can't really justify to myself upgrading to the new "toy;" however, if I spend a couple hundred and something really catches my eye, it's not that much of a loss (especially after dumping the old device on Craigslist or giving it to one of my kids).

You don't by Apple and pay so much because the hardware is so much better, you pay it because the integration is so good and the lack of problems to deal with

I fear in jobs absence that will change

Dell is best ... Desk top computers have become "advertisement conduits" . If you want to simply use the machine, the engineering is not going to ease of use. For instance compose an email and attach pictures is not as direct as it could be. They want to take you to a browser. Computing power and ability is performed by the host computer you are connecting to. So .... for best experience with your machine you want a solid state drive to accommodate what is being piped to you.......... bob

Can we get a translator over here?

I'm saying the "desk top computer" should be called a "desk top rendering machine"...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you?

It already has.

I've used Macs since 1985.

For the last year, I mutter to myself, "exactly when did Microsoft buy Apple."

While I don't think Apple will go the way of Lotus 123 or Netscape, Tim Cook has a fraction of the vision Steve Jobs had and none of his passion for perfection. He's just a normal C-level exec.

Apple was Steves baby, for Tim it's just a job. You can never get that kind of passion for just a job...

Yes, without Jobs the Apple we all love is slowly rotting.

Yes the integration is great but I will argue the hardware in many, not all, cases is better.

The 3,1 / 4,1 and 5,1 MacPros are undoubtedly the pinnacle of desktop hardware.

There's a reason that 5-8 year old machines are in demand on the secondary market and still command higher prices than most PC's you'll find at retail.

My 08' MacPro is a dual quad core Xenon with 32 GB's of RAM, 7 TB internal, 16 TB external SATA RAID 5, dual 2 GB GPU's running 5 displays on the latest up to date OS.

It's a beast that has been running 24/7 since new except for the odd downtime to swap a component or move its location.

It really is a spectacular bit of design and engineering.

http://www.everymac.com/images/other...-open-2008.jpg

What model/year of used Mac Pro would you recommend, if one
were looking for a desktop?

Tough one.

The dual quad core CPU boxes, 08' 3,1 are really good boxes and are the best value. I would only get the dual CPU 3,1, not the single or anything older.

If budget is less of a concern then a 10' or newer 5,1. They are not cheap but you'll get your money out of them in the long run.

You have

08's are the 3,1's

09's are the 4,1's

10'-13' are the 5,1'

The secondary market price point basically increases $500 per model.

Also depends where you buy, fleabay will be cheaper than a trusted reseller.

Good place to start, these are 8 core boxes. Buy Refurbished Used Apple Mac Pros | mac of all trades

All boxes / configs, Buy Refurbished Used Apple Mac Pros | mac of all trades

I would pick up the newest one that fits your budget.

Don't worry so much about graphics cards, they are easily upgraded.

They will all run pretty much every off the shelf PCI card available today.

If there is a Mac version of a particular card, like the GTX 680's get the Mac version.

It will have EFI on the rom which is the only difference.

EFI does two things, gets you the boot screen and registers the card correctly in system profiler.

Non EFI cards work just fine, you just get a blank screen until it boots to desktop.

Lack of boot screen is really only an annoyance if you have bootcamp or want to access startup disc options without a restart.

Leaving in the stock card or one with EFI (how mine are set up) on it as a "helper" card solves that issue.

RAM is similar, one of my 3,1's runs 667 mhz ram when it calls for 800 mhz. Works just fine as long as all slots are populated with the same spec chips.

667 is half the price of 800, the trade off in amount of ram you can install outweighs the slight performance hit of the slower chip.

I would disagree that the hardware is any better, but there are tighter controls on integration and drivers. The components in that computer of yours aren't what most people would need in a desktop but would use in a server. Those components in a Mac are certified for use in a Mac where a windows unit you can gram a RAID controller from some guy in a white van on the street and Microsoft wont care with the OS where the Mac OS will tell you to get rid of that piece of crap. And it will be a piece of crap and the server will mostly run but give a BSoD now and then and people will complain it has bad RAM or who knows what.

I haven't looked for a while, but the last time I priced a Mac desktop unit it was more difficult to put the latest generation video card in it. That may have changed from 2009 /2010.

Do you or have you owned one of those boxes?

You can use the case as jack stands for your truck.

Every piece is machined to the tightest tolerances.

There is not one edge anywhere in the box where you are in danger of cutting your hands while reaching inside.

No bundles of wires all over the inside that get in the way of swapping components or rubbing against case / GPU fans and act as traps for collecting balls of airborne matter.

No tools required to swap PCI cards, RAM, hard drives.

1,000 watt power supplies that I have yet to ever have one die.

Whisper quiet ventilation that is designed as part of the case rather than just slapping a fan over a hole in the back. In fact the PC's that I have running in the same environment accumulate considerably more dust and particulate compared to the tighter sealed MacPro case. Dust and particulate accumulation contributes to higher operating temperatures which contributes to component failure.

And yes, you have not looked in a long time then. Virtually every off the shelf PCI card works and has for years.

And yes, my rigs most certainly are built out to a higher specification than the average consumer requires but it does not matter. The consumer and prosumer all get the same quality box to start with, what they do with it afterwards is up to them.

While many of the internals that are found in one, CPU's, BT and WIFI cards are certainly identical to the ones used by other manufacturers to argue that how they are combined does not affect the overall performance, functionality, and longevity of the box is simply not true.

I would never recommend someone buy an $2,000 computer, Mac or PC, when they would be just as well serviced by a $500 machine but sometimes you do get what you pay for, you just have to decide if you need it.

I'm looking on eBay, and am often seeing this statement in the descriptions: "OSX Lion is the highest version this Mac Pro can run". Why is that - shouldn't a Mac Pro be able to run any version of OS X?

They don't know what they are talking about.

https://support.apple.com/kb/SP728?locale=en_US

Went thru a similar ordeal few years back. Had an HP that I really liked (2nd gen touchsmart / flip screen / DVD / Win 7 ultimate) but fried three times and after near exact 3 years of usage. Purchased new heavily discounted in OEM sealed box. Covered under warranty Best Buy offered me a full replacement from original price and select or apply difference to anything I wanted.

Caught an online Best Buy deep discounted loaded 17" Asus including a rarely found Bluray drive, a separate Nvidia graphics board, etc.. Last version of the OEM installed Win 7. Best part was the FACTORY Asus warranty of 24 months. Plus right after I registered it with Asus, they gave some bonus extras. Weird though as it was a hassle placing the order online with Best Buy and apparently they had a price discrepancy. Fortunately, I called a store, directed them to the link and they honored it. In two days it was at my door. Considering my initial cost from years back on the 1st laptop from B.Buy, I'm very pleased with the deal and mostly the Asus product.

Definitely next time around will acquire another Asus.

EDIT: Should have added, after two years the only minor complaint is the battery has petered out. But... the factory replacement is only $18 on Amozone. Crazy cheap compared to other name brands.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1447880190.jpg

What machines are dependable currently? Go to the dude in the repair dept and ask him what he has to repair the most and/or what he dreads seeing come in the door. Avoid those. I bought an ASUS desktop about a year ago and love it. Dell quality is the WORST and customer service/satisfaction is run by Satan himself. I've had desktop machines since my Commodore 64 and I'll use an abacus before I will buy another Dell.