80% lowers and now 80% 1911's?

[John Rogers]

At the show at the Delmar Fairgrounds this weekend I saw several booths/tables with companies selling 80% lowers AND most of them also now sell a 80% 1911 kit! There was a bit of differences in the materials the parts were cast from and also some differences in how the jigs were machined and made. The average price with all the necessary parts, jigs and a couple milling tools was around $650 or so. Has anyone seen one of these assembled yet and if so how did it come out?

I listened to one of the young sellers telling an interested customer a drill press can be used to run the end mills and cutters or even a hand drill if you are careful! Seemed like he was not a real machinist...... If the 1911 does work well it falls under the same rules a 80% AR-15 comes under as it would have no serial number so can never be sold or transferred!

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by john rogers

If the 1911 does work well it falls under the same rules a 80% AR-15 comes under as it would have no serial number so can never be sold or transferred!

I like it! No reason for the gov't. to know what I have and they don't obey the laws that are supposed to keep them from knowing.

[Jrboulder]

Considering the AR market fell apart I guess they had to find something else to do.

There's a pretty strong contingent of hardcore home builders who wil have the skills and tools to not only finish the machining but fit the slide, safety, etc.

Slotting on a benchtop drill press... Um no...

Grizzly has/had a mini horizontal mill that would be a sweet way for the homegamer to put frame rails in.

[gr8fl4porsche]

80% Glocks too.

Welcome to Polymer80, Inc - Innovative Design, Quality and Service

[flatbutt]

80% because you build the final 20? hmmm intriguing.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

80% because you build the final 20? hmmm intriguing.

Almost. For the feds, the receiver is the firearm. So 20% done yourself to the receiver - drilling barrel holes, pin holes, etc. - makes it your own home made. The 20% isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there has ever been a challenge to it in the courts.

There ahve been lots of 80% receivers out there - 1919 side plates (for semi auto only of course), FN-FAL castings, 1911s for a long time, ARs of course, 10/22s, etc. Depending on what kind of tools you have access to you can even clone a mauser action.... Only federal limitation is not for commercial purposes (you can sell 'em down the road - probably. Again, not court tested.) and you have to keep within the NFA laws.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by id10t

Almost. For the feds, the receiver is the firearm. So 20% done yourself to the receiver - drilling barrel holes, pin holes, etc. - makes it your own home made. The 20% isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there has ever been a challenge to it in the courts.

There ahve been lots of 80% receivers out there - 1919 side plates (for semi auto only of course), FN-FAL castings, 1911s for a long time, ARs of course, 10/22s, etc. Depending on what kind of tools you have access to you can even clone a mauser action.... Only federal limitation is not for commercial purposes (you can sell 'em down the road - probably. Again, not court tested.) and you have to keep within the NFA laws.

ATF can and will do whatever the hell they want, courts be damned. They only go after the ignorant, not the willing, and usually a subset of those are people who can ill afford a court battle. Build what you want, pay cash for materials and keep quiet about it. As long as you don't have a full-auto or burst malfunction at a public range (which has landed people in jail before), no one will be the wiser. For your daily carry gun, use something that's factory made and well-documented. You're gonna lose it anyway, but you might as well have other bases covered.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You're gonna lose it anyway, but you might as well have other bases covered.

???

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

???

If you shoot to defend yourself, the firearm you use will be confiscated by LEO, for evidence.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

If you shoot to defend yourself, the firearm you use will be confiscated by LEO, for evidence.

Please don't spread FUD. A statement like that really requires citation.

Firearms used in the commission of a crime - sure they will be confiscated. Used in self defense? Not likely.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by john rogers

At the show at the Delmar Fairgrounds this weekend I saw several booths/tables with companies selling 80% lowers AND most of them also now sell a 80% 1911 kit! There was a bit of differences in the materials the parts were cast from and also some differences in how the jigs were machined and made. The average price with all the necessary parts, jigs and a couple milling tools was around $650 or so. Has anyone seen one of these assembled yet and if so how did it come out?

I listened to one of the young sellers telling an interested customer a drill press can be used to run the end mills and cutters or even a hand drill if you are careful! Seemed like he was not a real machinist...... If the 1911 does work well it falls under the same rules a 80% AR-15 comes under as it would have no serial number so can never be sold or transferred!

Most would go with the aluminum frames because of the lessor need for stainless level machining. The front jig cut can be done with a handdrill, but I would get only a quality jig on that nose and I would lock the entire receiver down when doing it. The precision there could be the determining factor at barrel lock up how good a gun it becomes. The rail track grooves are tricky and the filing really requires patience and to take it slow. I would get a jig also for the top deck!

For one gun, buying all of the jigs is cool, if you just want to say you did it! But honestly not cost effective unless you do a few guns!

Also it would be wise to have the engraving of serial numbers on the 80% and get it legal because the fines and jail risk aren't worth it, and even maybe order your custom engraving just for the guns individual coolness! Some replicate the original WWI or WWII markings and some put skulls and crossbones etc. Zombies, etc on theirs. If you aren't planning on buying any jigs because you saw a trick on a U-tube video, then I would only engrave later, because you will probably jack it up and at least that cost is not wasted, on what is now wall art!

Most of these 80%ers are made for a specific slide, so it would be recommended to have the slide before you start the frame work. Also the learning curve goes up after all the mistakes you make on the first one. So if you are just doing one, don't make any mistakes!

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Brando

Please don't spread FUD. A statement like that really requires citation.

Firearms used in the commission of a crime - sure they will be confiscated. Used in self defense? Not likely.

They absolutely will be taken by the police for the duration of the investigation and possibly trial. You think the cops come to a fatal shooting call, legal or otherwise, and take the homeowner's word for it whose gun belonged to whom, etc.? That's why it's good to have a carry or home defense gun that has a paper trail and can be verified as yours. If you want guns for other purposes (doomsday prep, wet work, etc.), those are the ones you want with no paper trail.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

They absolutely will be taken by the police for the duration of the investigation and possibly trial. You think the cops come to a fatal shooting call, legal or otherwise, and take the homeowner's word for it whose gun belonged to whom, etc.? That's why it's good to have a carry or home defense gun that has a paper trail and can be verified as yours. If you want guns for other purposes (doomsday prep, wet work, etc.), those are the ones you want with no paper trail.

Yup. Heck, even when a cop shoots someone (and sometimes just discharging the firearm, depends on dept policy) it is taken during the investigation. Of course, they may turn around and issue a replacement but the one used is bagged up for evidence

[Rednine11]

Originally Posted by id10t

Yup. Heck, even when a cop shoots someone (and sometimes just discharging the firearm, depends on dept policy) it is taken during the investigation. Of course, they may turn around and issue a replacement but the one used is bagged up for evidence

yep. even in self defense its gone.
its evidence since you're going to trial