I don't get the point of AWD (hear me out)
 

I don't understand why they bother putting AWD on performance cars sold to the public to be driven on public roads.

I am not saying AWD is not real. When I autocrossed, I was sliding all over the place, at the limits of traction. Tires screaming. In that context, I can totally see how a modern AWD system would help you go faster since you can give more throttle to non slipping wheels. For performance applications, AWD was devised for getting additional power to the ground while having limited traction while sliding around at the limits (80s Quattro dirt rally car)

So, I have no idea how it's relevant to driving on public roads, unless you're roasting your tires around turns.....in which case, you'll be plowing into a child or SUV sooner, rather than later. I don't think you can even reach 50% of what a car can handle on even the twistiest backroads. If you’re not hearing your tires screaming, you’re not even close to the limits of traction. Who is driving like that on public roads?

What, you say? AWD is better in the snow? Well sure, AWD in snow seems a whole different conversation. Sure, it seems clearly superior for gaining initial traction, etc. But, are they marketing an AWD WRX or 911 as a good snow and rain car? (vs. performance on dry pavement)

Understeer? Who is really driving hard enough to be plowing your front wheels? That never happens to me..... maybe just drive like an old man...

What, you say? Put the power on in the middle of a wet curve and they will slip. That's where you need AWD. To that, I ask, who is actually driving aggressively in the rain?? Probably not anyone old enough to afford a car with AWD!

You could use the same logic to say "Why does anyone need more than 200hp?", but I do understand what you are getting at.

Awd
 

Hi,my first awd car was a 1983 Audi Turbo Quattro I bought in 1990.I put a 20 valve 200 turbo motor in 1994.Oh baby.Ciao Fred

Safety - an AWD can control torque to each wheel, combined with electronic brake control to act as an active diff, the handling can be made drastically safer.

Simple . . .

Marketing


Customers think they need it, or it makes something 'better'. The customers are prepared to pay a premium for it, so the manufacturer provides it.

I don't see how AWD is just a marketing ploy. More wheels turning = more traction in unpredictable scenarios?

I'd like it from December to March for starters.

Well, living in the cascade mountains with a good portion of the yr in that white stuff, no contest over front or rear wheel drive for me. Add great blizzak snow tires in winter and there isn't much I can't drive too.

I regularly drive over a pass that regularly posts chains only except all wheel drive, never a issue. yes, I guess you can say I am getting old, 67 :eek: but guess what, you might get there some day yourself.

I had grip explained to me very simply as "a tyre can only do a 100% of anything at a given time". If the driven tyre is also the steering tyre (e.g front wheel drive) then you can't get 100% steering while asking for 100% acceleration at the same time.
So hard into a corner, foot down will result in lost grip (understeer, wheelspin) because the inputs are exceeding the 100% threshold. Now that is at the extreme...

However in my front wheel drive turbo sedan many times while waiting for a gap in the traffic to pull out of a driveway or a side street and then needing to pull out in a hurry, I have heard my front tryes squeal. That noise is lost and wasted energy (traction). In an AWD you are less likely to get that because 2 wheels are steering and pulling and two are pushing.

When I need to get out of the way of traffic the last thing i want is lost traction.....and that is NOT a marketing ploy. Our family has 4 Audi Quattros (2 of them RS models), a RWD Mercedes, and my front wheel drive Ford and I definitely think AWD is an advantage.

Just because you drive like a geezer does not mean AWD is bad. My 997 would understeer, at times rather alarmingly.

When you get above 400hp, I think AWD has a place.

Around here FWD/RWD park in the street at the bottom of long steep driveways. Without some sort of AWD/4wd you do some walking. Not much fun at -20F.

Why the rant?

While I agree that AWD is not strictly necessary in a performance street car, why should we think its a negative? I'd be no more or less happy with my 997tt if if were RWD rather than AWD...BUT then it would be a GT2 and would have cost 2x (or 3x).

I will say that there have been occasions when I have felt the front wheels driving the car, pulling it around a corner. Specifically a decently tight corner when cresting a hill, hard on the power. Without AWD perhaps the car would have slid a bit, or I wouldn't have been able to give it as much gas. More likely, stability control would have kicked in.

In the 997tt, the AWD is not any more unnecessary than the 500ft/lbs of torque available in overboost mode.

In climates that don't have 300 days of pure sunshine, a car that handles well in poor(snow,ice,heavy rain,stone roads) conditions is a great asset. Not all of us live in a concrete jungle, and can use the help on dicey roads.

I drove an R8 and a Hurrican LP650 at Exotics Racing in Vegas. Compared to the RWD cars I drove both these AWD cars had a big oversteer propensity which I did not like for sure.

thinking on this a bit more, forget about AWD...whats the point of ANY performance car sold to the public to be driven on public roads? We should all just buy Prius and call it day.:D

I understand 4wd that you can put into 2wd, but not AWD.
Uses more gas, more parts to wear out....
Even my ATV can be 2wd or 4wd (plus 4wd w/difflock) with just the flip of a switch.

LOL, I'm one step ahead of you.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/844010-modern-muscle-how-much-hp-too-much.html

On the flip side, I can't think of a single time in my life where I've spun the tires in order to get out of the way of something, and traction was lacking on dry pavement. That only seems to happen in 1980s car commercials. If anything, responsive steering seems more relevant for swerving out of the way of something, which is also extremely rare.

Again, I'm not debating AWD's superior control and safety in rain and snow, but who is marketing AWD sports cars as inclement SUV weather performers? Is AWD marketed as safety or performance? The benefits to the latter seem academic. Are AWD sports car consumers really driving so hard that they're constantly losing traction on dry pavement? 99% of posters on this forum were ripping Magnus a new Ahole for driving like a punk on the streets, some even calling for jail time! Maybe AWD would have helped him during that truck crash, but I am assuming most people don't drive like that.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/im...0324181115.jpg

On the other hand...
The Myth of All-Powerful All-Wheel Drive

I don't think anyone is claiming that AWD is the end all be all and a substitute for decent tires. But all else being equal, if there is snow on the ground I'll take AWD over RWD or FWD anyday. I don't know how that can be up for debate.