Interesting discussion on tools - USA v Chinese

[id10t]

What's In a Tool? a Case For Made In the USA - Slashdot

For those of you who've never seen/used/heard of slashdot, it is geek stuff mostly. There are moderation levels, users randomly get moderator points. Read the summary, follow the link to the real article, but on the slashdot page slide the moderation up to 3, 4 or 5 to see what the collective thinks are the best posts/replies/comments.

Enjoy!

[KNS]

Good article. Just because the Chinese make airliners doesn't mean I want to fly in one.

Or, buy soon-to-be-here Chinese made Buicks.

[John Rogers]

In the 10 years I raced the 914-6 my tool box in the toy hauler was mostly stocked with tools from Harbor Freight. Several reasons, they were cheap, if stolen I would not be out lots of $$$$$ and they seemed strong enough. As a matter of fact I have never broken a HF tool of any type.

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by john rogers

In the 10 years I raced the 914-6 my tool box in the toy hauler was mostly stocked with tools from Harbor Freight. Several reasons, they were cheap, if stolen I would not be out lots of $$$$$ and they seemed strong enough. As a matter of fact I have never broken a HF tool of any type.

Lucky you, I've destroyed lots of them...
- Yesterday: Pins holding a brand new hole saw were not pressed in enough, causing the thing to come apart during use.
- Locking pliers came apart where the threaded part you turn to adjust them attaches to the body of the wrench
- Hose clamps bought in a pack had a high failure rate (turn screw, clamp doesn't tighten)
- A punch that came as part of a set bent on the first use
- Leather gloves came apart at the seams on the second use.

[aschen]

Slashdot seems cool

[widebody911]

I bought some small metric open-end wrenches @ Harbor Freight a few years ago as an impulse item, because they were on sale. I threw them in the toolbox and didn't give them a thought. When I actually went to use one, I found that the 'open' end hadn't actually been formed properly, it was just a hole with no way to actually grip a fastener.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by aschen

Slashdot seems cool

I used to love /. back in the day, but the layout and moderation system never really evolved and could be a PITA sometimes.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by john rogers

In the 10 years I raced the 914-6 my tool box in the toy hauler was mostly stocked with tools from Harbor Freight. Several reasons, they were cheap, if stolen I would not be out lots of $$$$$ and they seemed strong enough. As a matter of fact I have never broken a HF tool of any type.

Agree only on the 'if stolen' and would add, loaner tools including for the kids, whatever. But add me to the busted HF tools camp. Countless times. The tolerances on the wrenches and pliers are really bad but good enough for the average, minimal user. Kind of the type of handtools leaving in a job box at a long term site, beater tool box stuff, etc.. Pretty funny because I don't think they bother tempering them and running the ovens. Easy to -cold bend- these Chinese wrench's.

If you spend a bit more on their better grade hand tools, I find them priced in line with swap meet, flea market used and old quality brand Mac, Snap-on, Williams. Even if those used finds are odd-lots or tarnished, little corrosion, they are outstanding.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by KNS

Good article. Just because the Chinese make airliners doesn't mean I want to fly in one.

Or, buy soon-to-be-here Chinese made Buicks.

If you drive a Buick they have had a Chinese engine and transmission for 10 years now.

[aschen]

I think the biggest problem is its hard to get medium quality tools anymore, now that sears stuff isnt all that great

Now it seems your only options are crap or "redneck prada" truck brands. I definately agree with getting shop grade stuff at a heavy discount if you can, but sometimes you just need to get something on short notice.


Personally I buy tools from amazon prime when I can, there are brands like SK and willaims that arnt too expensive but are high quality

Personally I have sworn off HF for everything but batteries, nylon ties, jacks, and disposable stuff.

[DanielDudley]

Kobalt and Husky are pretty decent wrenches for the money. Stanley socket sets are fairly decent.

I could pretty much live out the rest of my life and never need to buy another wrench, so it is immaterial to me. There are decent sets out there that can be had on sale for a really good price, but young people today aren't programmed to respond to certain names the way we are.

[rwest]

Cheap tools get expensive fast when their poor tolerances muck up a hard to remove fastener and you end up wasting a lot of time. Good tools fit better and can remove stubborn stuff much better.

[look 171]

I didn't read the article, so I will just add to this. We buy Kobalt wrenches and sockets and they have been fine. We don't work on cars or engines, but wrenches for construction. They are more then enough quality for what we do. I hear there are some ties with their tools and Snap-ons?

HF tools are junk, and I would never buy them until my floor guy turned me on to a floor nailer and the economics of it. I had to go there for a bag of rags, and I see this roofing nailer, we don't do any roofing, that's the roofer's job, so I bought it on sale for 24.99. Shat can go wrong? WEll, that damn thing is still kicking and the boys use it to attach all type of unimportant stuff. Its coming up 5-6 years bouncing in back of their trucks. I am not sure if a Senco or Bostich can match the amount of abuse those guys dished out to the poor HF nailer.

[nzporsche944s2]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I bought some small metric open-end wrenches @ Harbor Freight a few years ago as an impulse item, because they were on sale. I threw them in the toolbox and didn't give them a thought. When I actually went to use one, I found that the 'open' end hadn't actually been formed properly, it was just a hole with no way to actually grip a fastener.

Doesn't that make it a ring spanner?

[rusnak]

+1 on Kobalt and Husky. They are better than HF, which is crap.

I'm a fan of Hazet, and Facom. Curious about Schwaben, which is on the ECS Tuning website.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Jay Leno wrote an article on good tools, and mentioned how a quality wrench will be exactly 13mm, whereas a cheap tool will be "sorta" 13mm.
I had really never noticed that before, but thanks to him, now I do, and I can't get that out out of my head, especially on semi worn and frozen nuts and bolts which have no tolerance for error before they strip.
On a new bolt- who cares.
On a frozen 40 year old bolt with one chance for failure, a quality tool seems to suddenly make sense.

[nota]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Agree only on the 'if stolen' and would add, loaner tools including for the kids, whatever. But add me to the busted HF tools camp. Countless times. The tolerances on the wrenches and pliers are really bad but good enough for the average, minimal user. Kind of the type of handtools leaving in a job box at a long term site, beater tool box stuff, etc.. Pretty funny because I don't think they bother tempering them and running the ovens. Easy to -cold bend- these Chinese wrench's.

If you spend a bit more on their better grade hand tools, I find them priced in line with swap meet, flea market used and old quality brand Mac, Snap-on, Williams. Even if those used finds are odd-lots or tarnished, little corrosion, they are outstanding.

+1

seeing the prices on old 911 tool rolls
I have been hunting MB and BMW branded tools at the swap meets also

[Jrboulder]

For mid grade USA hand tools I like JH Williams (snap on industrial). Their USA made tools all have letters in the model number and the asian have numbers only part numbers. I enjoy tools the same way I enjoy cars, spoons and the like so I'm ok with paying a little more for something that (1) doesn't slip off a fastener and cut me all the time and (2) interets me.

Western Europe makes some pretty nice and currently affordable tools too. My heuer vise was made in Germany and is so much better than my HF vise. I don't stray too far from my German Knipex pliers. My Fein (Germany) angle grinder was $48 new and my Bosch (Switzerland) corded drill was $58 new.

[MBAtarga]

Was it a member here that had a signature line of
"Buy expensive tools - only cry once." ?

[speeder]

HF has its place but not for hand tools, unless it's for a one-time use while far from home, etc. I've actually bought quite a few big ratchet come-alongs and chains there lately while out on the road fetching road kill, err..., old cars.

They are great for cheap floor jacks, portable air tanks, extra jack stands, stuff like that. They also seem to be conveniently located in the middle of nowhere around the U.S. I guess they like the cheap RE.

If I'm actually at home in front of a computer, I'll buy old, high quality made in USA stuff every time. It's fun to score a great shop quality floor jack or some MAC tools on CL or the like. Once you've used good tools, it's nearly impossible to tolerate poorly made crap. My buddy with the indy MB shop has 40 years worth of snap-on tools in several roll-aways and if I hand him a craftsman screwdriver from my car trunk kit in the middle of some quick repair, he stops what he's doing and says, "what is this?" It just feels wrong in his hand, lol...

Someone once explained it best, (and it was stated above), "when you have one shot at a rounded or rusted on fastener before it fails, that is when snap-on pays for itself." Pros have to monatize their time, (and knuckles). Inferior tools don't pencil-out.

Everything I work on is old and fasteners are always a problem. I understand that weekend DIY guys can't justify thousands in tools but buy Craftsman or SK at the least for wrenches and sockets and have some good screwdrivers.