Guitar players, does a really good multi effects pedal exist?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

You guys that just want to play a little while sitting on the couch should check these out

Yamaha THR10 Modeling Combo Amp | Musician's Friend

I like the blues version. There's a metal version and an acoustic version too. Read the reviews. It's tough to find a bad review of this product. It's perfect for keeping on an end table in the living room, decent modeling, built in tuner and effects, can run on batteries, hook up an iPod etc.......pretty neat for what it is

I'll give it a bad review...and it pains me, cause I love Yamaha. My bedroom amp is a little 70's Yamaha combo which ive owned since I was 14 and it has never ever failed, and still gets used nearly very day. That's value for money. But- a friend lent me one of these toasters, the metal version, and I stuffed about with it for days. It sounded as bad as it looked. That said, when mine finally croaks, I might get one. They'll be $25 by then.

[Rick Lee]

I HATED that Yamaha combo too. Sounded like playing through a clock radio. I got my last Roland Cube 30 (also a modeling amp) for $75 out the door at GC. It was a floor model. It sound unreal and was dirt cheap.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

When you get in to high-end amps, it's sort of a shame to use effects processors with them. Stomp boxes are a lot less technically advanced, but they let the amp's character shine through. I stopped using the Boss when I realized it was just silly to have Twin Reverb Silverface and then not to be able to use that amp's organic tone. You can probably get a GT-3 for under $100 now. I gave mine away a few mos. ago.

My favorite sound is plugging straight into my Fender Bassmen 100 with a 2x12 cab, I can convince my wife to let it live in the living room but the thing is just too damn loud to play inside the house.
Isn't there something like a power sink you can plug into the output of the amp to bring the volume down? If so does it stress out the amp at all? I would hate to burn out my beloved 70's vintage Bassman.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

My favorite sound is plugging straight into my Fender Bassmen 100 with a 2x12 cab, I can convince my wife to let it live in the living room but the thing is just too damn loud to play inside the house.
Isn't there something like a power sink you can plug into the output of the amp to bring the volume down? If so does it stress out the amp at all? I would hate to burn out my beloved 70's vintage Bassman.

Oh man, attentuators are another rabbit hole. They can run from $10-$700 and everyone has opinions on each of them. The latest one that seems to get universal raves is the Fryette Power Station. It's $600, weighs 20 lbs. and they are sold out. You can only get them from Fryette or on the used market. I fondled one at NAMM a few weeks ago and it's just way too big and heavy to haul around to gigs.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Oh man, attentuators are another rabbit hole. They can run from $10-$700 and everyone has opinions on each of them. The latest one that seems to get universal raves is the Fryette Power Station. It's $600, weighs 20 lbs. and they are sold out. You can only get them from Fryette or on the used market. I fondled one at NAMM a few weeks ago and it's just way too big and heavy to haul around to gigs.

Wow, okay, thanks....
Thing is when we start kicking aound $300+ multi-effect stomp boxes for that kind of money I could get a little 15-20 watt 10-12 inch multi-effect practice amp that I can toss in the closet when I'm not playing and doesn't take up any space in the living room... and I can crank it up without rattling the windows and freaking out my elderly neighbors.

[Rick Lee]

I'll sell you my Roland Cube 80xl for $265 shipped. It will get every sound there is, good for playing at home or small bar gigs. Or go to your local GC or CL and get a Cube 30. They sound the same whether at bedroom volume or cranked. I do not understand the effects processors with hundreds of banks and thousands of options for each bank. Way, way too complicated for me, impossible to DIY repair and obsolete within a year. My beater MXR and TC Electronic stomp boxes sound fantastic.

[stuartj]

I sold a Tom Scholz "Power Soak" recently for $450! (Vintage isn't always good) I used to use it to quieten a 100w Marshall Superlead back in the day, but it killed the amp. Took away all the sparkle and tops.

IMHO- forget valve amps unless you play out, and can turn them up. Get a Pod or a Cube or like. I never even turn mine on at home, theyre too loud.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by stuartj

I sold a Tom Scholz "Power Soak" recently for $450! (Vintage isn't always good) I used to use it to quieten a 100w Marshall Superlead back in the day, but it killed the amp. Took away all the sparkle and tops.

IMHO- forget valve amps unless you play out, and can turn them up. Get a Pod or a Cube or like. I never even turn mine on at home, theyre too loud.

This is the thing... they are now making little 15-10 watt valve amps... I think I have seen 5 watt and less... pretty sure I have seen pro's performing on these mini tube amps mic'ed into the PA.

[ramonesfreak]

What do you mean "now making"? I'm pretty sure fender released the Champ back in 1948 which is 5 watts

Maybe you are noticing the many boutique,low watt tweed, blackface and British style amps being made and being used on stage these days?

There are many and typically range from $2k to $3k new. I just bought a Victoria and it's amazing

Check out the DVD Robert Plant and Band of Joy at the Artists Den and you'll see Buddy Miller with 2 Swart amps miked up. Not sure which model, maybe model atomic space tone I don't know. But yea, low volume excellent tone and build quality if your willing to pay for it

If you want an amp with an amazing attenuator built in and are willing to pay $3k, check out Tone King

You could go the more affordable route and just get a newer Blues Junior that will have a master volume

Quit frankly I don't understand the don't buy a tube amp unless you play out philosophy. I haven't been without a tube amp in 30 years and I've lived in dorm rooms, NYC apartments and condos. Didn't get my own house with a basement until I was 40 years old. It all depends on the amp and your tone preference. Are you gonna get the best tone from a 59 bassman in your apartment? No. From a Champ or Tweed Deluxe? Maybe. From a fender black face? Yea for sure since the circuit is designed for its clean tone as opposed to most tweed circuits. My deluxe reverb sounds just fine on 1.

Originally Posted by scottmandue

This is the thing... they are now making little 15-10 watt valve amps... I think I have seen 5 watt and less... pretty sure I have seen pro's performing on these mini tube amps mic'ed into the PA.

[Rick Lee]

Those low wattage amps can still blow your windows out and they still need to be cranked up to get the warm tube sound. If you won't be playing loud, don't spend your money on a tube amp. I have run my SLO at 7 before and you'd think a fighter jet was on afterburner right over your head. But it's such a heavenly tone at that volume. Even at bar gigs I can't really get the volume much over 2-3, as it's well mic'ed into the PA and I don't want to kill my bandmates. I just turned one of my 5150s up to noon in the house an hour ago. Sheesh, that's insanely loud.

[ramonesfreak]

The 3 low watt tube amps I have currently don't come anywhere near blowing out the windows even when dimed. My AC-15 (15 watts) and my Victoria Chicago-lux (14 watts) are both barely loud enough to keep up with a drummer and sound great at very low volume.
My deluxe reverb (22 watts) can get quite loud but has always been played at low volume in the 25 years I've had it and sounds nice

A champ at 5 watts ain't gonna blow your windows out, even though they can sound pretty big especially with a 12" speaker

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Those low wattage amps can still blow your windows out and they still need to be cranked up to get the warm tube sound. If you won't be playing loud, don't spend your money on a tube amp. I have run my SLO at 7 before and you'd think a fighter jet was on afterburner right over your head. But it's such a heavenly tone at that volume. Even at bar gigs I can't really get the volume much over 2-3, as it's well mic'ed into the PA and I don't want to kill my bandmates. I just turned one of my 5150s up to noon in the house an hour ago. Sheesh, that's insanely loud.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

The 3 low watt tube amps I have currently don't come anywhere near blowing out the windows even when dimed. My AC-15 (15 watts) and my Victoria Chicago-lux (14 watts) are both barely loud enough to keep up with a drummer and sound great at very low volume.
My deluxe reverb (22 watts) can get quite loud but has always been played at low volume in the 25 years I've had it and sounds nice

A champ at 5 watts ain't gonna blow your windows out, even though they can sound pretty big especially with a 12" speaker

Aren't those (mentioned above) combo amps? I'm talking about the heads like a Suhr Badger (18w?) or Soldano Hot Rod 25. I think Marshall makes a 15w head now too. Those are plenty loud when run through a 2x12.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Aren't those (mentioned above) combo amps? I'm talking about the heads like a Suhr Badger (18w?) or Soldano Hot Rod 25. I think Marshall makes a 15w head now too. Those are plenty loud when run through a 2x12.

Yes. They are combos.

I guess my point is, the circuit is what matters most,along with the players preference

A Marshall JTM45 whether as a blues breaker combo or a head and cabinet is going to be damn loud because you are not playing it for its clean tone typically. You want that non-master volume Marshall tube distortion with this circuit and getting it means turning it way up. Obviously not a great apartment amp.

But other tube amps distort at very reasonable low volumes like the champ and tweed deluxe because of the circuit design and are great for those that want lower volume tube distortion

Other tweed amps have much more clean head room and sound great at low volume, but will only be clean at lower volume and will require pedals for OD/distortion - like the fender Harvard or vibrolux

Whether a player wants a clean or a distorted tone, there are plenty of tube amps out there that will deliver that at low volume and still sound warm and pleasing

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Hey Wolfe- you know that was a Tele..... -)

I played with a guy for a long time, he wheeled many amps in Bogners, Slos, a Friedman...then an AXE. He spent months dicking about with it. Very complicated, but very versatile, make any sound, but never ...quite...right. He went back to a Friedman and analogue board....I know two others guys who ditched the AXE. The guy I play with now uses a less sophisticated multi thing into an Egnator. Sounds like arse to me, mostly. I used to think modelling was the future, but I'll stick to the old school stuff.

Yep, I know it was a Tele. I've long been a naysayer to the "it was an LP!" crown. I have the master multi-tracks for WLL, all eight recorded tracks. 60 cycle hum all over it. I do think the solo may have been an LP, there is no 60 cycle hum during it.
The Supro in the vid is a placebo, but it does get scarily close to that tone.

The Axe isn't very complicated really. If you can't get a good tone out of it, there's something wrong with the user. It's gotten much, MUCH better over the last few years with the AxeII and it's firmware releases.

[Cajundaddy]

Scott,
Another choice if you like the BF Bandmaster tone and just want it in a more manageable package is to get a small amp that does it at lower volumes. I have a Fender Super Champ XD that is a small cheap 15w tube hybrid practice amp. It reproduces Fender BF tone pretty well at any volume and also has a palette of other amp voices like Tweed, Vox, and Plexi that are reasonably convincing. It also has decent onboard Reverb, delay, chorus, and flange that I find useful. I got this one used for $200 and it has become my favorite grab-N-go practice amp. It IS just a small cheap practice amp that sounds pretty good at any volume. Not to be confused with a Mesa Mk V, AxeFX or other high-end pro touring rig.

This guy does a reasonably credible demo of the SCXD Blackface tone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S98RccQUvKc

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Scott,
Another choice if you like the BF Bandmaster tone and just want it in a more manageable package is to get a small amp that does it at lower volumes. I have a Fender Super Champ XD that is a small cheap 15w tube hybrid practice amp. It reproduces Fender BF tone pretty well at any volume and also has a palette of other amp voices like Tweed, Vox, and Plexi that are reasonably convincing. It also has decent onboard Reverb, delay, chorus, and flange that I find useful. I got this one used for $200 and it has become my favorite grab-N-go practice amp. It IS just a small cheap practice amp that sounds pretty good at any volume. Not to be confused with a Mesa Mk V, AxeFX or other high-end pro touring rig.

This guy does a reasonably credible demo of the SCXD Blackface tone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S98RccQUvKc

Actually the Fender super champ XD is at the top of my list of options... it is even available as a head unit I could plug into my 2X12 cab... however I note in the pictures on the back it says "8 ohms ONLY!" maybe it would be okay if I wired the cab as a 16 ohm? Edit, maybe I should check the speakers... if they are 4 ohms I could make it work.

Surfing ebay seeing some interesting lo-watt tube amp options, a 5 watt VibroChamp XD Tube combo has me interested... hmmm... when is that tax return coming in?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Quit frankly I don't understand the don't buy a tube amp unless you play out philosophy. I haven't been without a tube amp in 30 years and I've lived in dorm rooms, NYC apartments and condos. Didn't get my own house with a basement until I was 40 years old. It all depends on the amp and your tone preference. Are you gonna get the best tone from a 59 bassman in your apartment? No. From a Champ or Tweed Deluxe? Maybe. From a fender black face? Yea for sure since the circuit is designed for its clean tone as opposed to most tweed circuits. My deluxe reverb sounds just fine on 1.

Aside from "The Louds", valves bring overhead- weight, bulk, cost and reliabilty/maintenance. Personally- just IMHO, for home use, I cant be bothered compared to what you can buy for very little money made in China. But I understand the attraction of 1w, 5w amps- have what you like!

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Actually the Fender super champ XD is at the top of my list of options... it is even available as a head unit I could plug into my 2X12 cab... however I note in the pictures on the back it says "8 ohms ONLY!" maybe it would be okay if I wired the cab as a 16 ohm? Edit, maybe I should check the speakers... if they are 4 ohms I could make it work.

Surfing ebay seeing some interesting lo-watt tube amp options, a 5 watt VibroChamp XD Tube combo has me interested... hmmm... when is that tax return coming in?

The Vibro Champ has the same voice channel and sounds good. I have seen them on CL LA at $100.

I think "8 ohms only" is fairly important with this amp. Running it on 4 ohms at very low volume is probably ok but that is not why you run a 2x12.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Never did and still do not like multi effects pedals for a lot of reasons.

The selection and quality of pedals today is really amazing and a little addictive. If you want a simple analog delay maybe get an MXR carbon copy. Many good reverb pedals out there. J Rocket' Boing is nice and simple. I have a WET and like it. So many nice over drive pedals out there that it's hard to know where to begin. I love my JHS Superbolt and my JRocket Archer.

Here's my current setup...going into a 14 watt Victoria Chicago-lux (tweed vibrolux clone)

Do you gig with that? I heard folks going on about true bypass and all that but it looks like you have 2x the number of cables since it all goes to the bar in the front. Doesn't that cause an issue? Nice looking board though,..

[ramonesfreak]

I use it to eliminate issues and avoid loss of signal tone.

Think of the true bypass switcher as just an extension of your guitar cable....the guitar signal goes in one end and out the other end.

When you want a particular pedal in the signal, you press that corresponding button on the switcher and it brings that pedal into your signal path.

The guitar signal only ever goes through that pedal when you bring that pedal into the signal.

If I didnt use the true bypass switcher, my signal would always be going through the 10 pedals I use.

That causes several issues. Signal loss, and, difficulty with trouble-shooting.

With my setup, if the phaser dies, not only will I know that it is in fact that pedal that has a problem, but I can keep playing since I can avoid sending my signal to the dead pedal by choosing not to select it.

Anyone that has ever had a bunch of pedals chained together and suddenly there is no sound will know what I mean. I got sick of that a few years ago and decided to do something about it. #1 best thing I ever did with my gear setup

What if the true bypass switch breaks? thats would be a huge problem that I couldnt fix. Its built like a tank and I havent heard of people commonly having an issue. If it happened, I would unplug and plug directly into my amp for the rest of the evening like keith richards I guess.

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Do you gig with that? I heard folks going on about true bypass and all that but it looks like you have 2x the number of cables since it all goes to the bar in the front. Doesn't that cause an issue? Nice looking board though,..