Friend claims mid 70s land yachts can be setup to drive like a sports car?

[sugarwood]

A friend was asserting that his mid 70s Caddy and Lincoln can effectively be set up to perform like a small nimble sports car. How would you respond to this?

I have set up many of my "barges" for real driving. You seem to reject the concept that any kind of "real driving" can be done with anything but a small car.

You give *some* of these yachts (the 77-79 Lincoln Mark V is a great example, super stiff, flex-free chassis, unlike the FWD 70's Eldos, which flex like the Golden gate Bridge) good low profile tires, stiff shocks, engine performance enhancements, good brakes and you've got a completely different car.

I appreciate small, nimble sportscars and have had many; four Nissan Z's, three 3000GT's, an awesome little five speed Honda CRX outfitted with all manner of performance gear. I don't deny that they can be great fun.

What I don't think you "get" is there's a unique thrill to CONFIDENTLY dropping a 4500 pound 20-footer into a steep curve at 80 mph and the big beast handling it like it's nothing. My topless Caddy, actually, can handle almost anything I would do with my wife's Maxima. If I swapped out the big mushy 15' tires for more aggressive rubber she'd be incredible.

The best results I had were with a previous Mark V; as I said, they have truck-like frames so they're stiff as anything when it comes to handling. They have four wheel disc brakes which I upgraded to drilled/slotted and I put a good set of low profile Pirelli 18's and sorted out the front end so all the bushings, ball joints and tie rods were tight and added stiff KYB shocks all around to lose that floaty feel. That car was a total pisser to drive aggressively as you never felt the car was anywhere near its limits or being pushed past its capabilities. Those relatively obvious upgrades changed the character of the car entirely, a completely different personality that is rarely seen but easily accessed.

It was like the homely girl who takes off her glasses and lets her ponytail out and VIOLA she's the prom queen. I can take the analogy a bit further. It's like sex with a large, curvy yet physically fit woman; she's no little ski bunny, but (I would imagine) there are pleasures there that the other couldn't provide.

He now has this to say about his 1994 Eldorado:

I don't know if I mentioned but the 94 has a one year only (as far as I know) horsepower performance option. It's the only Eldo from that era that I've had (and yes, I've had a few) that has a satisfying LAUNCH when you hit the gas. Handles like a mother****er, too; it looks like the struts were swapped out at some point from the electronic to manual. It doesn't have that "lumbering" feel the others did, especially in tight corners.

[1990C4S]

This should be good. Subscribed...

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

A friend was asserting that his mid 70s Caddy and Lincoln can effectively be set up to perform like a small nimble sports car. How would you respond to this?

He notes a number of "sporty" cars in his email, no sports cars though. Best case, they're sports cars with a small "s" versus a capital "S".

[KFC911]

Dad had a '78 Lincoln Mark V (I think it was)....last year of the big 460 motor.

It was 'bout the same as a sports car as disco was to music imo

[mreid]

Yeah, right.

I tried that with my 1970 Oldsmobile 442 convertible. Its a standard GM A-body with a ton of suspension, handling options. I gave it the full Monty. Stiffer, lowered spring, performance shocks, tuned sway bars, poly bushings, etc. It made a huge difference.

Not even close to any true sports car, but very nice.

[rwest]

I'm no expert, but this is the internet, so here goes!

I would think that you could get the suspension and everything to make it handle nice and firm, but you can't get rid of the mass, so it will never be "nimble" and "tossable" around the corners like a true sports car.

[ted]

computer controlled new cars have a big advantage,
same tires and no nannies or traction control or abs?
you need a Camaro like Big red to do it.
https://youtu.be/UEDeorDvrsE?t=3m56s

makes the old car look good...
https://youtu.be/Ec273bYL4MI?t=9m36s

[DanielDudley]

Tossing a car around a corner isn't the fast way through a turn.


You can easily give a stock NA a run in the twisties with an 04 GMC Sierra with fresh shocks and E range tires.

I had Michelin tires on a 75 Century wagon, and it would easily keep up with a stock sports car of the day. The wagon rear end actually helped with the balance. It is only when you get into a super tight corner where the smaller cars really seem to shine. I mean really tight corners and hairpins of the type you rarely see on an open road.

[stomachmonkey]

Friend of mine in HS tried to convince me that his brothers 72' Camaro handled better than a Porsche by hitting the first turn on Stillwell Lane at 80.

After we finished spinning and bouncing off the dirt embankments on both sides for what seemed like a lifetime we opened our eyes to see the hood had come though the windshield like a frikken guillotine and stopped a few inches short of decapitating us.

His brother was totally cool with it BTW. He had already bought a new car, their dad had leant him money on the condition he got paid back when the Camaro sold. He was off the hook for the loan.

[Otter74]

A big barge is never going to perform like a "small nimble sports car" but some of them can be made to handle well*, and when they are they can be fun to drive, and it *is* satisfying to make something that big and barge-like go fast. Not all land yachts are created alike. A 77-up GM B/C body can handle quite well with a good suspension on it. A 71-76, much less so. 70s A-bodies and F-bodies handled relatively well but were still hobbled by their suspension design. *Often "handling well" on such cars tends to mostly involve cranking up the roll stiffness a whole bunch to prevent the really adverse camber angles that were endemic to the front-end geometry on a lot of those cars, something that is suggested in the quoted text.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by KC911

Dad had a '78 Lincoln Mark V (I think it was)....last year of the big 460 motor.
It was 'bout the same as a sports car as disco was to music imo

Friend is a huge disco fan.
One of his favorite movies is Saturday Night Fever.
It really impacted him.

[Racerbvd]

Guess this is what he meant by a "small, sporty" car.





Hell, I think it would be a fun project..

[Cajundaddy]

I'd say "Great, build your lead sled and bring it to the track next month. We'll see what she's got!"

Spend $20K on suspension and tires, then remove 2000 lbs and you have a 80s NASCAR chassis. You can't change physics though. Performance is mostly about hp/wt and grip/wt. Weight is the common denominator.

[pavulon]

He'll spend a lot of money to prove himself wrong.

[varmint]

owned a 69 deville convertible with the 472 V8. awesomest car ever made, in a straight line.

the idea that it or any of it's contemporaries could be made to corner well is just bizarre.

[intakexhaust]

oh my.... funny stuff

I will comment though not reveal the names and who's who but years ago had a bellyache of a time at Sebring. Un-named pro driver and others in rental E-350 vans wringing out. Ahemm loaded w/ passengers.... of which those will be forever un-named. Holy mutha of gawd it was insane. BTW: Tires may disintegrate at any time beyond lap two.

[Dantilla]

A friend is building a '69 Camaro, and is going with Art Morrison's complete suspension package.

It will be interesting to see the final result- Modern suspension/brake technology using the Camaro's original pickup points.

[sugarwood]

Any commentary on wheelbase?
Size matters: A short wheelbase enhances the SRT® Viper

[varmint]

i remember some top gear about a company that would retrofit your e type jag or other sixties british sports car with a modern suspension and brakes. they got impressive results.

but sixties british cars are not american lead sleds.

[Nostril Cheese]

"and added stiff KYB shocks all around to lose that floaty feel"..