Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but you gotta to pay to play. I know it harsh, but that's they way it goes, its like paying taxes.

Calling 20 agents liars without any proof is more a reflection on you than any of those agents. Notwithstanding your obvious bias against an industry, you purport your FSBO to be equal to an MLS-backed listing. Your FSBO is like going to a dentist operating out of van down by the river. He might be a great dentist but has no standing. No accountability if something goes wrong. As the homeowner, you advocate only for yourself.

I have bought rental FSBOs in the past. I never pay the asking price because the FSBO is usually a pain to deal with and I know I'm not getting full disclosure.

Geez Jeff, I didn't know you were a nice guy. :D

6000 is a high rate to sell something
but one I was willing to pay
12000 is out f---ing outrageous
and noway I was going to do that

now days with million dollar homes common
it is way too high a rate
60k to sell a house is nuts

proof is each agent while claiming to have willing buyers waiting
but none would not act as a buyers agent for 3% and show their phantom buyers
they all wanted only a 6 month listing at 6%
to me that is ample evidence of lying or collusion

full disclosure is a myth
you only get a real partial disclosure after a paid home inspections
and that only happens after the offer at the buyers expense
I have never seen an agent pay for a inspection prior to a listing
there simply is never full disclosure on any home at any point
as there are all ways unknown unknowns

Agents are tough to hire.

Selling our house in NY we interviewed one recommended by my wifes long time close friend. The woman was barely in the house 10 seconds before she started talking price reduction. Was obvious her approach to selling was getting clients to rock bottom pricing so the house move before she has to do any work.

Interviewed another realtor my wife had worked with when looking for a new place. She always looked like she'd had a hard night and had slept in her car. She would not negotiate her rate and in fact was asking a full point more than anyone else. We turned her down which was a mistake, she sold the closest comp to our home in a less desirable location for more than asking in under a month.

We went with another agent my wife had worked with and got no action for months. One day we were out while she was holding an open house. We got a call from a friend who stopped by to drop something off. She said "your front door was open so I let myself in. I'm standing in your kitchen looking at your realtor in one of your lounge chairs in the yard with her headphones on sun bathing"

We fired her.

Not soon after I get a knock on the door, she introduces herself as Katie, a local real estate agent. I was just about to tell her to leave when she said "I'm curious, I pass this house every day, why is it still for sale and why for so cheap?"

I invited her in. We signed up. By the following weekend she'd brought a dozen buyers and I had an offer for full price the next week. Ended up booting that buyer because he was a jerk and she found me another buyer who bought the place for $10k over asking.

You're driving yourself crazy trying to find an individual buyer's agent with that "bullseye" buyer, and just paying them 3%. So, you are talking to 20 agents who "may" have a buyer.

Here's what I am picturing:
- You don't put a lot of value on your time
- You're dealing with agents who don't put a lot of value on their time
- It isn't working, but you are "saving" 3%

You can spin your tires endlessly trying to find that ONE agent who has the right buyer for your property. He/she may not even know they have that buyer, by the way. The role of the listing agent is to market your property effectively not only to buyers, but to other AGENTS as well; that last part is more important than direct to buyer marketing or "boots through the door" approaches. And that's the part that you don't want to pay for, and so you are stuck spending your time with bottom feeders and dupes. Enjoy.

I get 2-3 calls or emails a week from people who say that they'll pay me 2-3% if I have a buyer for their home. I have a concise, polite reply that states that when they are serious about selling, give me a call. I'm not going to lose 2hrs to a phone call and on-site appt for a property that I *might* have a buyer for and a seller who has basically made it clear that they don't see value in what I do. My time is far better spent on PPOT

Oh I think I know what you are getting at now.

There are some discount brokerages that will post your property on MLS for a flat rate, but it's not actually searchable to the lical agents in your area.

Here's what happens:
Your local real estate board has a system that they use to enter properties onto MLS, and search for properties for their buyers.

So, when we list a property, we put it in the system. It *feeds* the listing onto MLS, and also gets sent out directly to buyers who may be set up on searches by their agents. When an agent is looking for a home for their buyers, this is where they look (as opposed to the public MLS site)

If you are using a discount brokerage or FSBO system that has MLS rights, they may be posting the listings on MLS, but not through your local real estate board's internal "feeder" system. This means that LOCAL agents who may have buyers don't know about your listing.

It's not about "turf" or hoarding buyers. We just don't see these listings, because your FSBO site or discount brokerage doesn't want to pay the local real estate board fees or carry the professional liability.

Agents aren't conspriring against these listings. We just don't see them, and they're typically a massive pain in the ass to deal with when we do come across them. Most busy agents don't have the time to screw around with them, so they aren't on our radar.

Hey, just because I am not nice to you that doesn't mean I am not a nice guy. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

For sale by owners always think their house is worth a lot more then others on the market. Never have I seen market value minus agent's fee deducted from the asking price.

I made it a rule to not even look at FISBO's.

As a general rule I find owners to be the worst sellers.

They follow and hover and point out all the things that they think are great about the place.

Sorry, that multi colored octopus looking chandelier and that heinous black and gold velvet wall paper will be the first things to go.

Me too. If my agent wants to talk to them, then fine, but she know how to weed them out after the first 3 sentences.

I did not reach out to any agent
they all came to my door
all were told REPEATLY no listing
I am selling the house advertising showing ect
buyers agents will get the standard fee 3%
NO listing agents wanted needed or tolerated

finally a guy WITHOUT any agent
came saw inspected and bought
no agent ever showed the house

the MLS is a scam as it hides the by owners homes
the system is way to expensive
the 2 broker two salesmen split is about three too many

makes zero sense to me
and is exactly like saying
I will only buy from used car dealers
and never look at a owner selling a car
because of chandelier's
and used car salesmen know all about cars

Makes perfect sense when pretty much every FISBO you've encountered has been an unpleasant experience, not a deal or savings simply because it's a FISBO and there is plenty of alternate inventory to pick from.

There never a deal by buying fromn FSBO is there. Unless its a great or good deal to be had, why does anyone want to go through the trouble. Especially if they are in the business like an agent. This is similar to dealers buying from sellers on craigslist then put em' on their lot. Not going to happen, unless its a great deal to be had.

don't get me wrong, I have nothing against you or what you are doing. Agents and buyers will take the easiest route and the deal is done. Just business, that's all. They are doing the same thing you are doing, maximum $$$ in return.

What percentage of FSBO sellers are willing to list/sell below market since they don't have a chunk of money going towards realtor commissions? If they are listing at comparable prices to everyone else, why go through the hassle of working with a FSBO seller?

Our first two homes we sold by ourselves. In both cases, job changes created an urgency to get out and move quickly. First house in Phoenix we owned for just 1 year and sold to the first viewer - first weekend we ran an add in the paper (yes - long time ago) when mortgages were assumable. We had priced the house to sell quickly, yet still walk away with some funds - basically got our own down payment back. Had a title company do closing for us. Second house (Dallas) - took a few weeks longer - maybe a month, but same situation. Again - ad in paper got some interest, closing done by attorney.

But both cases, sold the house under market value and walked away with money, which we would have been out of pocket had we listed with an agent.

sorry..didnt mean for this thread to go this way.

my original intent was to illustrate different selling styles.

i LOVE my selling agent. she is the jason bourne of RE agents. i can barely keep up with her.

I have a couple clients who buy through me, but always sell privately. I always advise them on pricing and marketing in exchange for a bottle of scotch. They take my advice and typically sell pretty quickly, but they know how to deal with buyers and buyers agents. IE, get out of the way and shut up. You can't "sell" someone a house. They'll like it or they won't... taking an hour of their time to tell them about every little thing you've done, and where the morning light comes in doesn't help ONE BIT. if anything, it generally kills any chance of the buyer picturing themselves there. Shut up and let them soak the place in.

The role of a listing agent is to market the property to attract the RIGHT buyers. Once the buyer is through the door, a good agent is pretty damn quiet. It's *nothing* like the BS on HGTV.

My experience with nearly every FISBO and why I would not bother.

Once had a guy spend 15 minutes extolling the virtues of a light switch at both ends of a long hallway.:(

Yeah on the rare occasion I show a FSBO, it's only if the seller will vacate while we're there. Most won't agree to it, so most don't get shown.

The agent I settled on was excellent. An older lady who knew the ropes and was honest with me about what to do, etc.
She worked for a discount broker (4% total) and when I first called she answered and I was a little taken aback because of her older-sounding voice.
I asked her a few questions about her style and for how long she'd been in the business, etc.
She said, "There are younger agents here, would you like to speak with one of them?"
That was my first sense of her integrity and I liked it. She dropped by and what she said about what other agents had wrongly suggested made sense.
Most agents told me that they could get well over $200,000 what this lady said...and she told me why.- which jibed with my local research & gut sense.
Went with me to Bed, Bath, & Beyond to pick out a nice bed & pillow case set. I told her that I didn't want to stage the joint and didn't want to rent a hotel room which was suggested by most other agents. "No need.", she said. "We'll clear out most of your "stuff" and it will present well."
She sold my place within three weeks.
.
Working w/her was when I bought my first cell phone - 2008. She'd call me to get lost because she was heading over w/clients.
Also, in the beginning, we'd sit at my place, drink coffee, and talk about investments, etc. She almost became a life coach.
A wise and honest agent/woman, which was what I needed and searched for.
Oh, and also, she was a smart dresser - always a professional physical presentation.
.
My living room w/my furniture "staging" - bare minimum >
.
~~~~~~~~~~
.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1458919353.jpg

update.

i am gonna punt my buying agent. she is not good. i get the jump on houses before her. she would call and tell me about a house..and i would say something witty like, "yea, i was at the open house this past weekend"
"well, how did it look?"

hahah.. i gave her three tries..i got into the hunt all three times, but only on my offer..not her saavy.

my selling agent..should wear a super hero cape. she got me so much more money for my home. it was so much more, i felt guilty. seriously. (for the record, i was pulling for the pregnant lady..but my wife and agent ranked her #3) i had 10 offers that met the deadline..3 more trickled in after the final boom. it was nuts.

i'm interviewing new buying agents..now.. i admit it is a fantastic job. i wish i could do it. it must be a challenge to juggle the clients best interest with making a sale.

Glad to hear you sold for good $$$. The first home my former wife & I bought with my CalVet loan years ago set us on the path for being able to upgrade to a much nicer home. We sold our house for twice what we purchased it for four years before.

i do not understand why the selling agent does not show the homes.
we do not want people we do not even know lurking around our home.
is this standard procedure? who is doing the actual "selling"? no one?
our agent wants 20-30 grand for presenting an offer? does not compute for us.
we probably gonna fire him.

Yeah, there are plenty of agents that have no qualms with suggesting their sellers spend a fortune with unnecessary improvements. However, there is always a flip-side to the coin. With a LOT of sellers, it can be like pulling teeth just to get them to keep the place clean, let alone make any improvements or have it "staged". That is usually in addition to several other hurdles they put in front of themselves, yet blame the agent in the end.

"Oh sorry, we forgot to put the dog outside, can you show it another time?"
"Sorry, we have company over this weekend, can you show it another time?"
"Yeah, I know we agreed to get the carpet cleaned, but just haven't had time to schedule it."
"There was dog chit on the floor when you showed it? Oh, sorry `bout that."
"The house up the street just went on the market for $20k more, so we need to increase the price."
"Yeah, I called a couple of the landscapers you recommended, but their prices seemed a bit high. We'll just pull all the weeds and trim the trees ourselves (never happens)."


The point being that there are just as many (if not more) uncooperative/unrealistic sellers as there are d-bag listing agents. Strangely, they tend to attract each other.

+1

If there is no real incentive to buy a FSBO, there is typically no real incentive to look at them (with or without a buyer's agent). Most FSBO sellers think they are smarter than the average bear, and never are. That is why the VAST majority of them end up with at least one agent in the mix before their house actually sells. If/when a FSBO seller agrees to a deal with a buyer's agent, that agent usually does the seller's job for them anyway, basically putting themselves in a "dual-agency" situation.

We just sold our home and are in escrow. Our agents were great but did not want to take/show pics of the garage. I insisted that we not only have pics of the garage but list it as a "car lovers" garage. The house sold in 11 days to a couple in another state.....sight unseen....based on the pics. The wife loved the kitchen and the husband loved the garage!

Now we are shopping for the next house. Can't believe when we walk into a house for sale and there are dirty pots&pans and dishes in the kitchen sink!! Wet towels hanging over the shower door!! Bathroom counter with all the owners prescription drugs lined up for the public to see....or take!!

Curb appeal is still rule #1. If the front yard is clean and taken care of, likely that the inside will be too.

If you have a listing agent that won't show the place, I would fire them post-haste (hopefully there is a unilateral cancellation provision in your listing agreement).
Typically, a listing agent has a lot more incentive to procure a buyer themselves, as they would "double-end" the deal (more money in their pocket).
However, there are a lot of lazy agents that secure listings and then simply rely on other agents to show the property and present offers.

That said, there are places and/or brokerages that do not allow "dual representation" so you should confirm that it's not an issue on those levels first.

Also, I think it would be mistake to limit the exposure and availability to only the listing agent (exclusive listing, etc.). YMMV...

You obviously give real estate agents a great deal more respect than i do.
A GREAT deal more.

I think you'd find that most competent, successful agents struggle with how low the bar is set in the industry, and get tired of having to work with lazy or unprofessional peers. It reflects poorly on all of us.

However, I bristle at the way I am often spoken to by people who are just oozing contempt at showings, open houses etc. People may have had bad experiences with agents in the past, and I don't mind proving my value as a listing or buying agent, but when someone makes a point of being disrespectful I shut things down pretty damn quick

The comission check to a very competent agent is the happiest check that I'll ever write.

thanks for the advice..
it turns out our contract has just expired. no renewal. seems easy enough. :)

This.

It's the primary reason I transitioned to the commercial side years ago.

Agree Completely Notfarnow and with Eric.

The better the economy the worse it gets with agent behavior. I see it from a Brokers perspective more now than ever.

A competent Agent / Broker with solid experience is worth their weight in gold. Learned this way before I every got into the business.

Choose wisely grasshopper!

well. again, my Wife let me do the dirty work.

i severed ties with my buying agent. she was not happy but said she understood.

i'm looking for a carbon copy of the lady that sold my house.

i think those that have a sour taste in agents only can blame themselves..there are thousands of them..they cant ALL be good. find the good ones and have a pleasant positive experience.

house sale stuff sucks enough.

my sellng agent admitted that hosting an open house is the worst part for her. but it is needed. mine even hosted a sandwich party for her entire office of agents just so her counter-parts can see it in case some of their clients shopping something similar.

then she had some secret agents tour thing..dunno. my neighbor was selling also. she got a jump on me and put her house to market first. mainly because i spent time doing things to my house..mine sold first :) my neighbor (retired) told me my agent rocked. she was always at the house, motivating my gardeners and repair guys. she even supervised the placement of the for sale signs..right down to the last detail. i loved her.