How did the tail-end of Baby-Boomers produce such dysfunction?

[rusnak]

^ Poor baby. Wahhhh!!! sob sob

[JD159]

Originally Posted by rusnak

^ Poor baby. Wahhhh!!! sob sob

I'm not sobbing. I'm just telling you go to **** yourself.

You started with the attacks not me.

I just posted data. With numbers. And you said nop! That's wrong. No data I could post could change your own beliefs. Sounds like the worlds current enemy.

[rusnak]

^ Passive aggressive. I mean you are Canadian. I guess it's not YOUR fault, right?

[JD159]

Originally Posted by rusnak

^ Passive aggressive. I mean you are Canadian. I guess it's not YOUR fault, right?

Never. I am a perfect millennial. A Canadian millennial at that.

[rusnak]

Good luck with that, dysfunction and all. Believe the lie.

[creaturecat]

me aging baby boomer.
i sure wouldn't want to be in the average millennial's shoes, while trying to attain the goofball American/Canadian dream.
times are tough. getting tougher.
the boomers in this area are pigs at the trough, for the most part.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Good luck with that, dysfunction and all. Believe the lie.

Absolutely. I am Canadian right. We learn from the best at believing in lies.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Noah930

It's not just cellphones (though that certainly is one example). It's a lot of other non-necessities that are now considered the American standard of living: cable TV, BIG TVs, the latest smartphone vs a flip phone, daily Starbucks, Coach handbags, a Lexus or BMW, spendy vacations, weekly manicures, rock concerts and pro sports tix, etc.

I'm glad to live in a country with such a high standard of living, but at the same time we seem to categorize a lot of niceties of living as necessities of living. As if these a rethingseveryone should have in their lives, or else they're not getting paid enough in whatever they do (if they're working at all), even if it's entry-level unskilled labor.

People are mortified when I tell them we don't have internet at home... we both have smart phones to look stuff up at home... or oh the horror if you had to grab a laptop and run to the library to use their WIFI (or target, or McDonald's, or Starbucks, etc.)... and yes we cheat and surf at work (on my lunch break now).
And smartphones? I'm sporting a $99 android... sure I would love to have a $600 top of the line phone but we are on a budget.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

Reading comprehension Flint. Reading comprehension Flint....

It is a study that has reported findings contrary to your stigma that millennials are lazy and working less. You have only provided anecdotal evidence about how lazy the millennials are. Your personal experiences, and your own personal outlooks. I have just provided actual statistical data. You have not.

I don't see the claimed comparison between boomers and millennials in your findings. U.S. millennials claim to work 45 whole hours a week. LOL. I worked more than that in high school and over 70 after I graduated from high school until I graduated from college...and probably averaged close to that for the next 30 years

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

Now get off my internet!

I think boomers built that too.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I don't see the claimed comparison between boomers and millennials in your findings. U.S. millennials claim to work 45 whole hours a week. LOL. I worked more than that in high school and over 70 after I graduated from high school until I graduated from college...and probably averaged close to that for the next 30 years

I also don't see any data from you that shows boomers working 70 hours a week. Thats great that you did, but show me what everyone else did.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I think boomers built that too.

So the boomers built the internet, and the millennials, the two things they complain about the most.

Weird.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I don't see the claimed comparison between boomers and millennials in your findings. U.S. millennials claim to work 45 whole hours a week. LOL. I worked more than that in high school and over 70 after I graduated from high school until I graduated from college...and probably averaged close to that for the next 30 years

Hours of Work during the Twentieth Century

Because of changing definitions and data sources there does not exist a consistent series of workweek estimates covering the entire twentieth century. Table 2 presents six sets of estimates of weekly hours. Despite differences among the series, there is a fairly consistent pattern, with weekly hours falling considerably during the first third of the century and much more slowly thereafter. In particular, hours fell strongly during the years surrounding World War I, so that by 1919 the eight-hour day (with six workdays per week) had been won. Hours fell sharply at the beginning of the Great Depression, especially in manufacturing, then rebounded somewhat and peaked during World War II. After World War II, the length of the workweek stabilized around forty hours. Owen’s nonstudent-male series shows little trend after World War II, but the other series show a slow, but steady, decline in the length of the average workweek. Greis’s two series are based on the average length of the workyear and adjust for paid vacations, holidays and other time-off. The last column is based on information reported by individuals in the decennial censuses and in the Current Population Survey of 1988. It may be the most accurate and representative series, as it is based entirely on the responses of individuals rather than employers.

Table 2
Estimated Average Weekly Hours Worked, 1900-1988
Year Census of Manu-facturing JonesManu-
facturing

OwenNonstudent Males GreisManu-
facturing

GreisAll Workers Census/CPS All Workers
1900 59.6* 55.0 58.5
1904 57.9 53.6 57.1
1909 56.8 (57.3) 53.1 55.7
1914 55.1 (55.5) 50.1 54.0
1919 50.8 (51.2) 46.1 50.0
1924 51.1* 48.8 48.8
1929 50.6 48.0 48.7
1934 34.4 40.6
1940 37.6 42.5 43.3
1944 44.2 46.9
1947 39.2 42.4 43.4 44.7
1950 38.7 41.1 42.7
1953 38.6 41.5 43.2 44.0
1958 37.8* 40.9 42.0 43.4
1960 41.0 40.9
1963 41.6 43.2 43.2
1968 41.7 41.2 42.0
1970 41.1 40.3
1973 40.6 41.0
1978 41.3* 39.7 39.1
1980 39.8
1988 39.2
Sources: Whaples (1990a), Jones (1963), Owen (1976, 1988), and Greis (1984). The last column is based on the author’s calculations using Coleman and Pencavel’s data from Table 4 (below).
* = these estimates are from one year earlier than the year listed.
(The figures in parentheses in the first column are unofficial estimates but are probably more precise, as they better estimate the hours of workers in industries with very long workweeks.)

Will continue to look for more statistics. This is what came up first.

[fintstone]

Disregarding expert opinion (an actual witness) for suspect statistics may not be your best bet (like Cocker's silly GI Bill remarks). I think you will find all your stats poor indicators as it appears you are only looking at manufacturing which has always been union (and the Cadillac of blue collar jobs). Salaried jobs (like federal employment or military) also often work very long hours but by law, are only credited with 40 in most cases. Lots of jobs do not allow documentation of greater than 40 hrs because they have to pay overtime. I have had two 30 hr jobs for the same company at the same time (both port time-no overtime). I have also worked a typical 40 hour per week job, then had a weekend job and a different night job Like most of my generation, I was just happy to get the hours.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

So the boomers built the internet, and the millennials, the two things they complain about the most.

Weird.

Often the artist is the most disappointed with his work. After decades of sacrifice to make the millennial's lives easier, they don't appreciate the effort and blame their own stupid choices on their benefactors. After providing this generation a huge boost in life, most are too lazy or stupid to take advantage of it. I look at the fabulous schools with air conditioning and fancy equipment and wonder just why they seem to learn so little compare to my school built in 1919 where everything was old and worn out...it was cold in the winter and hot in the summer...and yes...and hour or more bus ride each way and walking the last two miles uphill home...when the snow was deep because the bus just could not climb the steep dirt roads (probably has not changed much in rural Appalachia)...and then working in the fields until dark before going home to feed pigs, milk cows, cut wood, etc.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Disregarding expert opinion (an actual witness) for suspect statistics may not be your best bet (like Cocker's silly GI Bill remarks). I think you will find all your stats poor indicators as it appears you are only looking at manufacturing which has always been union (and the Cadillac of blue collar jobs). Salaried jobs (like federal employment or military) also often work very long hours but by law, are only credited with 40 in most cases. Lots of jobs do not allow documentation of greater than 40 hrs because they have to pay overtime. I have had two 30 hr jobs for the same company at the same time (both port time-no overtime). I have also worked a typical 40 hour per week job, then had a weekend job and a different night job Like most of my generation, I was just happy to get the hours.

Not to be snarky but, you aren't an expert in employment statistics. Your own personal experiences, while possibly substantial, account for a very small percentage of overall work averages. What I presented has global research across many, many more industries. What you bring to the table doesn't hold a candle stick to research performed by a billion dollar company that is used by other billion dollar companies and governments to make decisions.

You don't know what kind of hours millennials around the world are working. You don't know what millennials in my city are doing.

Why is it that members of my family disagree with you? They are baby boomers. They didn't come from wealth. Their parents were farmers. They did pay for my parents tuition. Some members of my family own companies, and have hired, fired, and have as much experience, or more, than you. Are they not credible? What about baby boomers who have an opinion contrary to your own. Somehow you hold your opinion above all others, and have yet to provide any information other than your own experiences.

Creature cat is a baby boomer. He thinks times are tougher for millennials. Is he not credible?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

Not to be snarky but, you aren't an expert in employment statistics. Your own personal experiences, while possibly substantial, account for a very small percentage of overall work averages. What I presented has global research across many, many more industries. What you bring to the table doesn't hold a candle stick to research performed by a billion dollar company that is used by other billion dollar companies and governments to make decisions.

You don't know what kind of hours millennials around the world are working. You don't know what millennials in my city are doing.

Why is it that members of my family disagree with you? They are baby boomers. They didn't come from wealth. Their parents were farmers. They did pay for my parents tuition. Some members of my family own companies, and have hired, fired, and have as much experience, or more, than you. Are they not credible? What about baby boomers who have an opinion contrary to your own. Somehow you hold your opinion above all others, and have yet to provide any information other than your own experiences.

Creature cat is a baby boomer. He thinks times are tougher for millennials. Is he not credible?

I never claimed anything regarding statistics or manufacturing jobs (never had any where I lived)...but have done a lot of studies and am quite good with statistics...with grad work in both topics (HR and OR). I only claimed my experience (we were talking about low level jobs that millennials will typically not do). You changed the subject. What the silly report you brought to the table on the topic contributed was absolutely nothing...as they did not study the topic that you weighed in on nor made any of the comparisons you sought to make.. Yes...my experience does tell me an awful lot about what I spoke about. My experience (where I lived). It has nothing to do with manufacturing jobs in Detroit or Ohio...those did not exist in most of the nation (flyover country) and do not today.

Nothing about your family disagrees with me. Yes, your grandparents paid your parents tuition and your parents paid your tuition just as I paid for my kids (other than their scholarships) and they will pay for their children's. I am more in the position of your grandparents than your parents. I am sure they had high expectations for your parents just as I did/doo for my kids.

I have no idea if anyone you mention is credible or not (or what they report on the topic). I do know that you are not...because it was before you were born. If they think you (or millennials in general) are lazy and privileged, I suspect that you would not be the first one to know. Everything you have told me about yourself is that you are very lucky to have a family that has provided you the opportunities that you have...and I see no reason in the world how you would have anything to complain about with regard to your start in the world or the opportunities you have in front of you.

This is what I often see/hear from millennials. They tell me how hard millennials have it because of my generation and I look at them (like you and cocker) and see nothing like the life I led. Children where I grew up were essentially farm hands until the reached an age where they could work full time for someone else (along with their own work). They had no money, little recreation or time for it. They generally worked for minimum wage at some labor intensive job until they managed to reach an age/experience level to be a supervisor (for slightly more). They worked all day on that job and came home to work their tiny farm...or worked all night on their second job. The only way to escape was the military.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I have no idea if anyone you mention is credible or not (or what they report on the topic). I do know that you are not...because it was before you were born. If they think you (or millennials in general) are lazy and privileged, I suspect that you would not be the first one to know. Everything you have told me about yourself is that you are very lucky to have a family that has provided you the opportunities that you have...and I see no reason in the world how you would have anything to complain about with regard to your start in the world or the opportunities you have in front of you.

This is what I often see/hear from millennials. They tell me how hard millennials have it because of my generation and I look at them (like you and cocker) and see nothing like the life I led. Children where I grew up were essentially farm hands until the reached an age where they could work full time for someone else (along with their own work). They had no money, little recreation or time for it. They generally worked for minimum wage at some labor intensive job until they managed to reach an age/experience level to be a supervisor (for slightly more). They worked all day on that job and came home to work their tiny farm...or worked all night on their second job. The only way to escape was the military.

What I highlighted in bold is something we both agree on. I don't like to see/hear complaining. I also don't like to see people from another generation, complaining about the millennials. The complaining from both sides is exhausting.

Yes, millennials complain. I complained, then I asked myself what I am going to do about it. I opened the GMAT book and got to work. I start in September at the leading co-op MBA program in Canada.

From where you grew up is a lot different from where my family grew up (my parents). They did not have it that hard. They certainly weren't rich, or even well off. Hairdressing and maintenance work paid for a house, cars, toys, food, and tuition, for 3 people. They did not have it rough, fortunately. That could be why my parents and family do not see things the way you see it.

I am in an even more fortunate position. I have nothing to complain about. Life is fairly easy. I'll finish my program and have great job.

Have you seen posts where I complain about my life or my situation? Nop. Will I complain about job prospects, the economy, costs of eduction, costs of living, costs of housing in the GTA? Yes, as everyone does.

The elders in my family (included immediate and extended) as well as friends of parents, do not see millennials as lazy.

Even though some old people are grouchy, it doesn't mean the majority old people are grouchy.
Even though some millennials are lazy, it doesn't mean majority old people are grouchy.

Your experience is not enough to convince me that millennials as a generation are lazy.

[rusnak]

^ Millennials as a generation are lazy.

Not all of them, just most of them.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

What I highlighted in bold is something we both agree on. I don't like to see/hear complaining. I also don't like to see people from another generation, complaining about the millennials. The complaining from both sides is exhausting.

Yes, millennials complain. I complained, then I asked myself what I am going to do about it. I opened the GMAT book and got to work. I start in September at the leading co-op MBA program in Canada.

From where you grew up is a lot different from where my family grew up (my parents). They did not have it that hard. They certainly weren't rich, or even well off. Hairdressing and maintenance work paid for a house, cars, toys, food, and tuition, for 3 people. They did not have it rough, fortunately. That could be why my parents and family do not see things the way you see it.

I am in an even more fortunate position. I have nothing to complain about. Life is fairly easy. I'll finish my program and have great job.

Have you seen posts where I complain about my life or my situation? Nop. Will I complain about job prospects, the economy, costs of eduction, costs of living, costs of housing in the GTA? Yes, as everyone does.

The elders in my family (included immediate and extended) as well as friends of parents, do not see millennials as lazy.

Even though some old people are grouchy, it doesn't mean the majority old people are grouchy.
Even though some millennials are lazy, it doesn't mean majority old people are grouchy.

Your experience is not enough to convince me that millennials as a generation are lazy.

Lazy is relative. Maybe if someone would have paid me twice as much, I would have worked half as many hours. Maybe if someone would have paid for my college, I wouldn't have worked three jobs when I went and might have finished sooner. Maybe if I could have gotten college loans to go to grad school without working...I would have as well. Unfortunately, I see it through my eyes...and assume I would have worked the same and just been more successful. Maybe I save my money simply because I was too poor to go on a real vacation or buy something nice. Maybe I bought a cheap little house because I assumed someday I would retire with almost nothing and would be on the street if I didn't. It is hard to know what you would do under different circumstances.

I do know that I work with millennials every day and an awful lot of them are pretty lazy and disinterested in their work. So are many that I work with from other generations...but, no group is anywhere near the millennials as a group. If that is not you, consider yourself fortunate and that your success is almost guaranteed...because you are certainly atypical. If that is you, stop whining and thank your parents for being so generous and get to work to make a better world. Build something equivalent to the boomer's internet, fight ISIS or find a cancer cure...not a social network where you can whine along with your other friends and entertain them with endless selfies.

Put your psychology training to good use. Look at the vast number of oldsters who have seen many generations...and how most post here. Can that many be wrong? I would make the case that your generation is getting pretty old to have accomplished so little (and most started quite late). Get to back to work changing our minds...or simply go back to your loser lifestyle (if that is you).