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-   -   Have I lost it? Elise vs. 911 SC (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/918821-have-i-lost-elise-vs-911-sc.html)

Sicklyscott 06-22-2016 06:01 AM
Yea, that didn't help.

I need to find someone local that can show me their car. I need to see if I fit with a helmet otherwise it's a moot point.

Sicklyscott 06-22-2016 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 9170553)
At DE, when I gave the pass signal on the straights, it never even occurred to me that I was "getting passed". No, I was simply giving room to people driving cars with 250% of the HP of my car. We are running two different races, but on a shared track.

Put aside the ego. You have a slower car. Everyone on the track knows it, and respects it. So, you have the best excuse why you're getting lapped. Problem solved.

Now, go learn to drive your car. If you are driving YOUR car to the limits, you should not care about getting passed.

Is there an ongoing purpose in owning the 911 (after realizing the bedroom poster is now in your garage?)
Does he wrench on the car? This might be why OP seems to be bored of the car.
OP drove his car 2500 miles in 3 years. So, he basically does not drive it, and it is a garage trophy, and has not yet formed any connection with it.
If the car is "not nice", I think you should simply drive your 911 a lot more. Drive it to work at least once a week.

On the other hand, since he does not drive the 911 anyway, the downsides of the Elise are sort of moot.
A kidney crushing ride doesn't matter when it just sits in the garage.
But, even with an Elise, you should still be prepared to give the pass on the straights to cars with triple the horsepower.
You have some valid points.

I do wrench on my own cars and I would not consider my car a "garage trophy". I'm not that kind of person. I drive my car when I can. Sitting in traffic for an hour on the way home from the office with no radio and a droning exhaust after a long day of work isn't enjoyable for me. Not to mention my insurance doesn't cover me for non-club type events. On the weekends I'm with the family.

recycled sixtie 06-22-2016 07:06 AM
I think Nickshu got it right with using the Elise for track only. If you could swing it SScot could you keep the 911 and get an Elise?

Thanks for video Nickshu - that was great. I would think it all boils down to the $$$. Extra car is expensive and need another garage space. If you have the $$$ go for it....:)

aschen 06-22-2016 07:15 AM
I have only sorta half paid attention to this threads development. Appologies. If the point of considering an elige is to go fast / faster, I don't think its a good choice. It is moderately fast in absolute terms, but as a fancy dedicated sports car, it is one of the slowest you can buy. Don't get tricked by low 0-60 time and 1/4 times from magazines. I think some of those numbers were downhill with a tailwind in the cold (for example I don't believe a normal person can get a stock elise in the 12s).

The numbers are misleading, power to weight gives you good low speed quickness which the car has. However at higher speeds where areo takes over the low weight doesn't help you very much. An elise is actually a pretty slow car from about 90+ MPH. If your local track has moderate straights you will get passed frequently by corvettes and modern 911s with similarly skilled drivers.

None of this matters to me at all. You cant win an HPDE. These are special cars. I don't think there are any other modern production road cars that can beat them in the fun to drive category. IF the goal is cheap reliable speed, I would be looking directly at a c5z06. 16k buys a decent one and you can keep up with nearly anybody if you develop the skill.

For some people faster is better. Not really for me but I wont judge

Nickshu 06-22-2016 07:19 AM
Aschen got it right. My buddy who is a NASA/PCA/SCCA master driving instructor sums it up well...the Elise is basically a sportier Miata. Made for track FUN, not made for turning out the top lap times. It's a car that's about balance, weight and handling. Not about HP, although there are guys with 400+ HP Elises with built engines/supercharge kits. For me it's about fun, not about competition. And the Elise is a lot more fun on the track than my 911SC was in my opinion. YMMV.

Reddy Kilowatt 06-22-2016 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickshu (Post 9170663)
Aschen got it right. My buddy who is a NASA/PCA/SCCA master driving instructor sums it up well...the Elise is basically a sportier Miata. Made for track FUN, not made for turning out the top lap times. It's a car that's about balance, weight and handling. Not about HP, although there are guys with 400+ HP Elises with built engines/supercharge kits. For me it's about fun, not about competition. And the Elise is a lot more fun on the track than my 911SC was in my opinion. YMMV.
You were driving MUCH better lines than some of the drivers you passed in your video. Good driver + fun car = fun day.

OP, it feels like you have some fairly muddled objectives (no offense). Buying a car to satisfy 2-4 track days, cars + coffee, and being fairly unique feels like a hodge podge decision. I think you need to pick 1 or 2 of those priorities. Just my 2 cents.

Nickshu 06-22-2016 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddy Kilowatt (Post 9170723)
You were driving MUCH better lines than some of the drivers you passed in your video. Good driver + fun car = fun day.
LOL...I am far from being a good driver but having fun practicing and improving!

cheeze 06-22-2016 09:58 AM
I'm here to play devil's advocate.

BUY IT! FS: 2005 Magnetic Blue Lotus + Honda K20A Type R Swap - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

petrolhead611 06-23-2016 02:56 AM
Instead of DE events, why not enter Sprints(you might call them Solo2) and hillclimbs? You are driving against the clock then and can measure not only your personal driving improvements but also relative to the other competitors in your class. Nobody else to crash with, and in sprints, only cones to hit, so impossible to total an Eluise or Excige.
Incidentally those cars in England are frequently seen on the road but we generally dont find it necessary to eat a weeks supply of meat at one sitting. A Lotus is a luxury car compared to the kitcars that most UK people compete in.

matt911 06-23-2016 04:17 AM
Have you considered the Elise's big brother? The Evora is more comfortable. I have both a 3.2 Carrera and an Evora. Candidly I've never been tempted to drive the 911 on track. The Evora is a track experience and a great choice for me since I sporatically do driving events with no more than 3 per year and don't need an all out toy, just a 3/4 toy. I'm 6'2" with a long torso and fit fine with a helmet in the Evora. If you watch the Top Gear review of the Evora there are some good shots of Clarkson driving, he's 6'5" and has headroom. Doesn't sound like you'll make a bad choice either way. Whatever it's worth, the 911 is my forever car but that's because it pulls on my heart strings and has roots to my youth.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1466680569.jpg

Nickshu 06-23-2016 04:37 AM
I'd love to drive an Evora. Interestingly I really don't see anyone on LotusTalk who tracks their Evora. I have considered an Evora for the reasons you discussed...can drive it comfortably to and from the track. Entry price for a used Evora is about twice a used Elise however. But it is probably twice the car.

Sicklyscott 06-23-2016 05:06 AM
I've seen a few comparisons of the Evora vs. the Cayman. Do you have any experience in a Cayman that you can add some highlights of the two? A lot that I've read suggests the Cayman S is a better package for the money (Cayman's being cheaper these days). Curious if you have a different opinion.

matt911 06-23-2016 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickshu (Post 9171896)
I'd love to drive an Evora. Interestingly I really don't see anyone on LotusTalk who tracks their Evora. I have considered an Evora for the reasons you discussed...can drive it comfortably to and from the track. Entry price for a used Evora is about twice a used Elise however. But it is probably twice the car.
Every track day I've been to at Lime Rock Park in CT has had 3 Evora's. I think they sold about 1,200 of them in the US. That's 24 per state (1200/50) on average. So if CT has 24 Evora's and 3 of them show up on a track day that's 12.5%. Yes, I know my math is contrived.

Third session on street tires that were greasy. Those are just excuses for needing to be a better driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWluoSM3rOA

matt911 06-23-2016 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicklyscott (Post 9171912)
I've seen a few comparisons of the Evora vs. the Cayman. Do you have any experience in a Cayman that you can add some highlights of the two? A lot that I've read suggests the Cayman S is a better package for the money (Cayman's being cheaper these days). Curious if you have a different opinion.
I have not driven a Cayman but I'm sure it's a better car in many ways. It's for sure better built and faster, all else being equal, but they live in the same performance neighborhood. If you wait around and hunt for the right Evora a good one can be had for $40-$45k.

What the Lotus gets you is exclusivity and what I consider a sexier car. Caymans are nice looking but also generic at the same time. Pictures can't capture the curves and detail of the Evora. It has that traditional wide hip, narrow waist, flowing curve design. I enjoy looking at it as much as driving it. I think I'd enjoy driving the Cayman just as much but wouldn't look back at it every time I waked away from it or just stare at it in the garage while drinking a beer.

Nickshu 06-23-2016 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt911 (Post 9171932)
I have not driven a Cayman but I'm sure it's a better car in many ways. It's for sure better built and faster, all else being equal, but they live in the same performance neighborhood. If you wait around and hunt for the right Evora a good one can be had for $40-$45k.

What the Lotus gets you is exclusivity and what I consider a sexier car. Caymans are nice looking but also generic at the same time. Pictures can't capture the curves and detail of the Evora. It has that traditional wide hip, narrow waist, flowing curve design. I enjoy looking at it as much as driving it. I think I'd enjoy driving the Cayman just as much but wouldn't look back at it every time I waked away from it or just stare at it in the garage while drinking a beer.
That pretty much sums it up. The Evora would be more unique, better looking, and less "sterile". That would come with poorer build quality, wonky electrics, and a poor dealer network compared to a Cayman.

Given the Evora is a heavier car vs the Elige I would go for an Evora S (supercharged) version which will get you up around $60K.

Charles Freeborn 06-23-2016 07:43 AM
The Elise is one cool little car. Faster than all get out. An early 911 will have a hard time keeping up, regardless of modifications and weight loss.
Look at the Subaru BRZ - or the Toyata equivalent. They share the same driveline, etc. Also a quick little car, depending on the track. The tighter the better.
For a budget track car a used Boxter S can be had for less than 20, then spend another 10 on improvements and it'll go good - that's if you want to stay in the Porsche family.

aschen 06-23-2016 07:56 AM
evora is a cayman for somebody who doesn't want a cayman in my book. I completely get the desire to have something a bit less common. Unfortunately for lotus, the cayman is one of the best cars every made from the champions of refined sports cars, so it is tough for such a small company to compete on the details.

If Porsche made their version of an elise, it would be amazing. They wouldn't do it though, they would have to charge too much for all the deleted options.

Nickshu 06-23-2016 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen (Post 9172099)

If Porsche made their version of an elise, it would be amazing. They wouldn't do it though, they would have to charge too much for all the deleted options.
And we are unsure if the federal DOT will ever allow again another 5 year waiver for a car like they did for the Elise/Exige (among others in history such as the LR Defender 90, same deal). That's a big factor.

sugarwood 06-23-2016 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicklyscott (Post 9170632)
Sitting in traffic for an hour on the way home from the office with no radio and a droning exhaust after a long day of work isn't enjoyable for me.

On the weekends I'm with the family.
I have changed my mind on this topic. If you really have nowhere to drive the 911, a Lotus is going to be the same pointless car to own. Why not get a muscle car? You can use it to commute, and you can use it or DE days. I don't care what anyone says, there is no substitute for horsepower. That is why pro race drivers have more than 200hp. The inconvenient reality is that many people in the USA do not have roads that would make owning a sports car worthwhile. If you live near highways and strip malls, the car really has no purpose beyond a garage trophy.

This makes me thankful that at least I have the option of taking back roads to work. It must be hard to be a driving enthusiast if you live where there really are no winding roads, and just highways and strip malls plazas.

masraum 06-23-2016 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 9170553)
Quoted the entire Higgins thing since it's just that good.

At DE, when I gave the pass signal on the straights, it never even occurred to me that I was "getting passed". No, I was simply giving room to people driving cars with 250% of the HP of my car. We are running two different races, but on a shared track.

Put aside the ego. You have a slower car. Everyone on the track knows it, and respects it. So, you have the best excuse why you're getting lapped. Problem solved.

Now, go learn to drive your car. If you are driving YOUR car to the limits, you should not care about getting passed.

Is there an ongoing purpose in owning the 911 (after realizing the bedroom poster is now in your garage?)
Does he wrench on the car? This might be why OP seems to be bored of the car.
OP drove his car 2500 miles in 3 years. So, he basically does not drive it, and it is a garage trophy, and has not yet formed any connection with it.
If the car is "not nice", I think you should simply drive your 911 a lot more. Drive it to work at least once a week.

On the other hand, since he does not drive the 911 anyway, the downsides of the Elise are sort of moot.
A kidney crushing ride doesn't matter when it just sits in the garage.
But, even with an Elise, you should still be prepared to give the pass on the straights to cars with triple the horsepower.
Wow, after all of the whacky questions, this is an awesome post!


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