Or what about when something goes TU and you have a "fly away" incident with a large swarm of heavily armed drones. :eek: :D

It seems to me many of the Warthog supporters are anticipating re-fighting the last war.
The Hogs were designed to kill a lot of heavy armor in a non-secure environment. There may never have been an aircraft so admirably suited for that purpose.
Who now has large numbers of tanks? Do we expect to be putting steel on target with a bunch of Putin's armored units? (a real possibility, the way things are going).
What is the threat these days? What do the guys on the ground need to back them up?
It may be fine to say "Overkill sounds about right", but bigger is not always better.
What is the mission? What will accomplish the mission? The Hog might not be the answer, any more than the Vietnam era Spad or the Typhoon.
Spam report on #82 made.
Best
Les

They may be a bunch of rusty old T-55s, but Russia has almost twice the number of tanks as the USA. China has just a few hundred more than us.

Canada has almost 200, and they are right in our back yard.
Ya can't be too careful, if you know what I mean.


Possible wars to come? Syria has 4500 Soviet tanks.
How many of those will be in the hands of Isis?


Tank Strength by Country
and this one for cross reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_main_battle_tanks_by_country

http://cdn2.insidermonkey.com/blog/w...40-500x332.jpg

Both the AT-6 and A-29 are single engine planes (lower survivability if hit). The AT-6 relies heavily on computer technology. Neither one has 30 mm armor piercing rounds. Neither one can carry half the rounds of the A10. Neither one is very well suited for landing in rough terrain.

Chart Shows Hourly Cost Of Military Aircraft - Business Insider

The WWII-Era Plane Giving the F-35 a Run for Its Money | Motherboard

The F-35 is supposed to be the A-10 replacement: Cost per hour: $67,550
Cost A-10 per hour: $11,500

That said, CHEAPER IS NOT BETTER. ITS JUST CHEAP.
Maybe you won't mind sending your son into battle with the cheapest possible plane above him.

T-6 published cost per flight hour is a little over $2k, 20% the cost of the A-10. Having known A-10 pilots and mechanics I can tell you for a fact that they spend more time undergoing maintenance than flying, I've spent time on the flight lines with them. The AT-6 and A29 can easily operate out of austere airfields, the logistics train associated with the A-10 makes such operations nearly impossible. As for the cannon, that's great. How is that in any way relevant to modern warfare?

Don't be a cheap ____ with someone else's life.

You keep ignoring other stats.
Single engine. Fuel tanks in proximity to engine. Virtually no ability to use rough terrain. Unable to penetrate armored defenses like military vehicles, tanks, bunkers.

Put your son under the protection of the T6. I'll put mine (and my butt) with the A10.

Conversation over. You don't care and you're not going to change my mind.

The Army loves the A10. For some reason that doesnt matter to the folks in DC that write the checks.http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/27.gifhttp://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/2.gif
http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/1.gif

Actually I retorted your "facts", most of which are wrong, in previous posts. Fuel tank in proximity to the engine, which is totally blatantly wrong. Ability to use rough terrain, blatantly wrong. Ability to penetrate hardened targets, blatantly wrong. But that's ok, obviously the TLC documentary you watched on the A-10 has made you an expert. I do agree with one point you made - obviously nobody is going to change your mind on the incorrect information that you know with such certainty.

This makes the most sense to me. The AF brass hates em cause they are low tech and the army loves the damn things. Give em to the army and let them control their own close air support while continuing to develop and test drone technology.

We have a long time friend who was a hog pilot and my FIL is Lt Col USMC ret. There is no aircraft manned or unmanned that these guys appreciated more.

It may come as a shock to you that your opinions (that you claim are facts) is not going to pass for documented proof.

My mind can be changed. Give me some links to places that back up your claims so that I may see the errors from my research. Otherwise, don't waste my time.

Photo of the A-10's Integrated Flight and Fire Control Computer going for a ride in my 993!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1471808912.jpg

Sorry but I'm not an internet commando. I spent three years of 12+ hour days making the AT-6 into a viable CAS platform, testing it with the USAF, and working through evaluations with a number of domestic and foreign entities. I know the airplane inside and out because I lived it. I also spent a significant amount of time working competitive intelligence on the A29 because it was our primary competitor. In addition, because our aircraft utilized the mission computer from the A-10 I spent days at the Lockheed location that does their system integration work, meeting with A-10 pilots and crew at Ft. Smith AR, and talking with A-10 crew on the flightline at Davis-Monthan AFB. So I have a little more background than what can be captured with a copy/paste of an internet link. Care to qualify your experience with the topic?

It's the CICU! I've carried a few of those myself, not a compact SOB.

Matt, if you worked that much on AT-6, you must be quite familiar with our past or present crew at Flight Visions/CMC/Esterline in Sugar Grove, IL.

I'll take most of the credit/criticism for the design of the FV-4000/Cockpit 4000 display computer.

The good old days! (1997-2007)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1471832474.jpg

Absolutely Mike! It was not easy getting the LM and CMC systems to co-exist on the same aircraft.

FOD caps????

:D

Now it makes more sense. You have a personal bias against the A-10. I don't think it is intentional however, because you worked on the other aircraft it would be hard to admit that the competitor is better.
It doesn't take a "rocket surgeon" to search and post some real facts instead of biased opinion. Since you can't produce any, "your honor, I rest my case".

Thanks Steve. Laughing now. Today I would have that sealed up.

Funny I would drive the A-10 HUD to the EMI test facility every day strapped into the passenger seat in my '80 Caprice for a month or two. It was secured with the seat belt and was so tall it cut the headliner going over bumps. There was two occasions when a guy in the oncoming traffic recognized the green combiner glass and make a huge expression wondering what that was doing in a rusted '80 Chevy.

Lol, whatever dude. Try to get out more, there's a whole world outside of the Internet.

I once had to pick up some inert Hellfires in a rental F150 at a freight facility in Tucson and drive them to a range in BFE AZ. I had to go through a Border Patrol checkpoint to get to the airstrip that we were operating out of. Amazing and somewhat concerning that they didn't ask any questions about the dude in a rental truck with four boxes marked as Missiles hanging out the bed.

Maybe they knew you were coming Matt. Would only take a few phone calls.

No, it was spur of the moment because we were trying to expedite schedule and not wait on truck delivery. I think they figured we weren't illegals and that's all they cared about.

Translation: I CAN"T GIVE YOU ONE SINGLE PIECE OF PROOF to back up my biased opinion. SmileWavy

Oh, wait, the personal insult somehow validates your claims.

Actually it translates to, I'm not going to waste my time Googling crap for you because quite frankly I don't give a damn about what some random uninformed person on the internet thinks.SmileWavy. If you want to believe that your internet commando knowledge rivals my real life experience then so be it, who am I to argue with the fantastic combo of ignorance and arrogance?

Then stop making claims you can't back up and yet trying to defend your lack to integrity with insults to those who question your opinions.

Show me a scientist that publishes opinions without one shred of documentation.

The difference is, of course, that this is a car forum and that I don't have to care what you think. You have yet, btw, to quantify your great aerospace knowledge. Surely you are a pilot, maintainer, or aerospace engineer with first hand knowledge of what you post?

ESD plugs and caps for tubes/ducts are on my mind... can ya tell it's FAA audit season again already?

Thinking about it for a second, I've never seen someone conclusively damage anything by ESD before. That's probably a good thing but after a while you'd figure it's something you would run into at some point.

Reminds me of picking up a really large jet turbine model at the Washington DC bus station. Strapped the fuselage on the top of the station wagon, and headed off down Pennsylvania Ave, just past the White House. Didn't realize what I had done until I got home and was looking at the car thinking, that really looks like a missile on the top of my car. Scary thing is, no one stopped me, or even looked twice. SmileWavy

I've seen connector sockets damaged by FOD when someone connected a connector and clamped it down. Those little caps are a great thing.

Blah blah blah STILL NO FACTS PRESENTED TO HELP CONVINCE ME blah blah blah MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS blah blah blah :rolleyes:
If you had even a shred of actual facts to back up your claim you would have presented it a long time ago. Instead you keep wasting time since on link would have ended all the crap and I would have conceded to you that you were correct.. The more you blather on without proof, the more I'm convinced that whatever I found online is right and you are FOS.

If I may interupt this parfish exchange for a moment.
Has anyone noticed the tank/ armor led invasion going on in Syria at this time?
So much for the notion that open field warfare is a thing of the past.

As to replacing the A10 with some fast mover with rockets , its my experience that aircraft that can linger and react quickly to the changes of the moment. And can Still be heard to be in the area, Are more impactful to the situation on the ground.

Cheers Richard

Oh yeah, absolutely. I may have evaluated something earlier today with several bent pins from someone who apparently had something in there when they tried to tighten the connector. Sometimes people amaze me.

Well it's hard to argue with an expert opinion like that, so I concede.SmileWavy Btw, do you ask your doctor to send you some Wikipedia links to back up his diagnosis?

My favorite was a Milwaukee cordless driver through the top of a wing. Moron had it balanced on the canopy rail and knocked it off, punched a perfect Phillips shaped hole in the top wing skin. Thank God it was not a wet bay and was a pretty simple repair. I told the shop supervisor that while I couldn't fire him, that he was not going to touch my planes again, because it wasn't the first stupid thing he had done.

(my armchair contribution)
Helicopters can loiter and do more work with the small stuff.
But one A-10 can cover a wide swath of territory and BAM SURPRISE MFKR I'M HERE!

I keep thinking, "Gee, maybe this guy knows more than me. Maybe he'll post SOME KIND OF LINK to prove his point. Heck I can learn from anyone"
Then, the new set of insults do continue to prove there are no facts to back up your biased opinion.
Aw never mind.

For those who came in late and missed the beginning of the concert, PLEASE watch this. Less than 6 minutes long.
<iframe width="649" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rEdy84YGf1k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Get a room :rolleyes:

I should add, had I perfect vision the Warthog would have been at the top of my list.http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/32.gifhttp://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/34.gif
http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/36.gif
http://onlinemarketingou.com/apple/images/1.gif

hmmmm seems that if I was going to make a choice on the more convincing argument I would side with Matt on this one Joe. From reading both posts, I'm not seeing much from your experiences except for some video. His argument is sound and I haven't seen many on this board challenge him (and these are guys with actual military experience) on this topic.

Lubey: I have found info from folks that say the other planes are better but when comparing to the basic foundation design of the A10 I find them lacking (ie: single engine or not simple triple redundant system). These are things that keep the plane flying in spite of greater risks of getting hit.
Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and they are all different. I do feel that Matt has a emotional connection (pride in workmanship) that may cloud his opinion. All I ask is for data, facts that are documented that back up his opinion. All I've gotten is juvenile insults. My conclusion is that Matt follows the principle that if you can't dazzle them with brilliance (or verified facts), baffle them with B.S.
I admitted up front I knew little about the A10 going into the discussion. I just can't accept "well I think..." as proof.