Need some advice
 

Hello,
I need some advice from the brain trust.

I have an older uncle in his 80's.
He has lived a good life, and was happily married for well over 50 years.
Several years ago, his wife suddenly died, leaving him alone, in an "about Schmidt" type scenario.
They never had kids. He earned the money. She had the brains,managed it, and took care of the big picture.
Her sudden passing left a huge void.

Ironically, his health was worse than hers. She was the caretaker, yet, suddenly, she was gone.

Enter a whole host of loneliness and housekeepers.
Each was hired, and was driven off with his healthy dose of crotchety old fart (he would fit in well to PPOT-if not for his C-car affliction-Z06 to be exact).

So a vacuum was created, and with all vacuums, something moved in. Someone half his age and willing to fill that vacuum.

Gold digger would be un understatement. She has over 30 hits on her criminal record including "abuse" and "threats" as repeated charges. She has several aliases and cannot keep a residence for more than a year or two. She has bankrupted herself, and other suiters in her grip. She was arrested as of last week for drunk and disorderly.
Last week, they announced they were going to get married. For obvious reasons I am concerned, if for no other reason than that she cannot seem to take care of herself, let alone an aging man almost twice her age. He will end up supporting her (he already is) and she will drain him as she has others in the past.
He is a grown man, and is not listening to reason. His fear of lonelyness clouds his judgment as makes him mush. She is manipulative, and is closing in on him.
I do not think they are married yet, but, as a family, we have extinguished our efforts on preventing the situation. Perhaps this is a situation that cannot be avoided. Perhaps you really cannot save some people from themselves, however, it hurts to see a loved one go down such an obvious dangerous path.
I am well aware that there may be no avoiding this. It is his life,his decision, his actions, however, I cannot stand by with out at least trying to do something. That includes (in addition to contacting lawyers, police, friends, family, and his neighbors) reaching out to a group of of strangers on this website who always seem to have really good feedback.

Advice please!
Thanks
Ron

My dad had this happen to a friend. The friend thought he hit the jackpot. His family and friends new it was trouble. It was a painful lesson for all involved. Can't recall if they married or just lived together. A few years later (and lots of money down the drain) the friend saw the light and got out.

Not much you can do legally I think. Support him or not.. tell him how you and others feel. Its not your decision in the end as you know...

Well how much is his estate worth and who was he going to leave it too?

He may be fully aware of what he's getting himself into and really just does not give a rats ass.

He may be of the mindset that his time is limited and once he's gone none of it matters to him so F it.

Pre-nup might help determine whether this is true love. Tough spot for you but as SM said above, he may want it this way.

Good point. He is worth a considerable amount, however, his siblings are also financially 'okay' as well, so there is no direct need to mooch his life's earnings. The direct concern we have is that she will eat through those assets in short/medium order leaving him with nothing of what he earned to support himself while he is still here.

also- there is the concern of power of attorney. As his health declines, she will be making decisions. She is a person who has displayed a general lack of critical thinking and good decision making skills. As he ages, his abiltiy is diminishing too. I am certainly not perfect either, but this is a life defining trend for her.

Yeah! who is listed as the executor to his estate....perhaps they can intercede to protect him.
And keep the gold digger from completely ripping him off.

We are considering recommending pre-nup with the idea that he can always change his will to direct his estate to her as he wishes. This would give him ultimate control over his estate and his intentions while mitigating her potential ill-intentions or screw-ups. This idea would seem to be a win-win, yet he seems to be afraid pre-nup would piss her off.

This sucks. Have you tried the super direct route? Sounds like you have. Print out her long list of criminal hits and present that to him. Likely not much you can do. My Mom is 80 this year. It's amazing how much her critical thinking and decision making skills have declined even though she shows no real signs of dementia. There is likely an elder protective services department of whatever your state dept. of social and health services is but unless there is active abuse happening they likely would not do anything.

Thanks. Currently, this is like a bad chess game unfolding. As of two weeks ago, we thought she was just a live in and we had time. Then, last week, we learned of the "shot gun marriage"

My Uncle contacted his brother for "best man".
He refused.
My mother and I have attempted the tact of "we want to be there- but you need to postpone it until a later date" in an attempt for the relationship (which is contentious... surprise :D) to self collapse.
On Monday, my uncle approached my mother with intents to get married via courts this week. My mother played her cards, and told him of her criminal record.

She called back, and just like the renters in their sob stories in the "talk me out of being a landlord" thread, tried to convince my mother she was a victim in all 30+ of the criminal charges. My mother (70+ herself) was obviously unconvinced and really isn't at her age used to dealing with this type of stuff.

My in-trouble uncle (otoh) is dancing to her tune and has been drawn in by her sweet siren song.

I have intentionally played the sidelines, realizing that it I play my cards, he will realize NONE of his family supports him, therefore they will pass church and go directly to court and tie the knot.

On Wed, he called me at work and left a message. He didn't say a word. In the background, she stated "Don't say anything, hang up."

He did.

It may be too late.

I am biding my time attempting to figure out as smart of end game strategy as possible, fully aware, that whatever I say may not work, however, currently not accepting the fact that the game is over. She may be manipulative, but she is not thorough or smart. This is where I need to stall and bide time until a prudent course of action takes place (if one is even available).

loneliness can be a powerful drug. as long as he's happy, and not being abused .......
imho she should somehow be limited to a mutually-agreed-upon budget of sorts. and monitored reasonably closely.

And if he called at his moment- this would be my strategy.
"You both are unique, you both are happy (well... most of the time), you both are benefiting from this arrangment. Getting married will accomplish nothing, not will it iron out the knots in the current turmoil. in fact, it will make it worse. If you want to give her the moon- you still can, at any time. Why buy the cow? You are both getting the milk for free"
(funny- while typing milk I typed "milf", but I don't think this quite applies!:D)

Find a really dangerous Italian restaurant or biker bar with known felons hanging out there. Contract one of said felons to have a little chat with her and clearly explain why she should leave right now and never come back. Find Uncle a new hobby that doesn't include bank account leaches.

Sorry, it's all I got...

Leaky, is there any legit cause to question his competency? Then someone who actually loves him can control the money. Or, are you close enough to sit him down, alone and talk man to man?

There sounds like a certain inevitability to the worst case scenario playing out in this. As such, the man is going to be left destitute or die. Were I a member of his caring family, I would pursue some kind of mechanism whereby the man's care and well-being are provided for no matter what, if he doesn't die first.

When the woman burns through his estate and takes everything that's left at least he will be cared for. Maybe try to convince him somehow to set aside some of his money now, in secret from the new flame.

This is a tough thing to watch, I bet.

If she is as devious as you suggest then they are already married. And there are no post-nups...

So make sure he has a will.

Flattbutt- Good idea which cannot be discussed over open channels and needs proper workup

Crowbob- That is just it... The " inevitability." It seems doomed, but it hopefully hasn't happened yet. With that comes at least a glimpse of hope. This is like some bad time travel movie where I need to fix the future before it happens- or at least try.

1990C4S-According to my mother, they were not married as of Wed (after his aborted call to me with her speaking over his shoulder.) If they are not married yet, I have a weekend until sunday to hone in on a response. Courts don't marry on weekends. Family IS important to him. My mother's hand had an effect. Hopefully it bought some time. Desperate thought/hope- but that's all I've got right now.

I want this flipped by sunday. It may not happen, but I will do everything I can.

Being on-site and present, matters.
Being of concerned collective family and of collective mind, matters.

You guys need to sit down and talk very rationally.
His immediate welfare and future welfare is number #1.

It sounds like she is threatening him whenever trying to speak to other family members.
Spousal abuse, especially of the elderly, is a major problem in society today.
A lot of elderly people cannot defend themselves.

Someone (even professional third party) needs to be on-site ASAP and assessing the situation now, on a regular basis...

Leaky, if you have time seek out a Certified Elder Law Attorney (CELA) mine set me up nicely.

Bingo - Who is executor of his estate? Who has Power of Attorney now? (if anyone)......Given his age, ask Doctor to write a letter he is not competent to make decisions. Have the person with Power/Attorney start transferring assets......You need to involve a good attorney ASAP....

My mother has Alzheimers. I worked with an attorney over a year ago. I rented out her house, pay for her care (out of her funds) and will protect her assests to be divided between my 4 siblings/self when she passes....... G'luck....

Should (gawd how I hope not) Cindy die before me, I would hope that I would remain sound enough of mind to realize that if a woman decades my junior showed an interest, I'd know it wasn't my body she was after.

Somebody needs to give this guy a wake up call he'll heed. How to accomplish that, I haven't a clue.

+ Flatbutt's suggestion of a certified elder attorney.

Sounds like what a relative is going through on my wife's side(my bil). Been together with a woman for about 15 years. She uses his money to invest in properties and then sells them and considers the money her own. He is slowly being bled dry but does not have the strength of character to get rid of her. These kind of goings on are common but with uncle being 80 the chances of legal intervention are greater. :eek:

"Uncle - Uncle, Uncle, Uncle, Uncle, Uncle -- I wanna be reasonable with you. Now, why don't you stay with us - with the family. You can live here on the estate. You won't be deprived of anything and you can have everything you want. Now -- I don't know this (inset woman's name here) -- I don't know what she does -- I don't know what she lives on. Now why don't you tell her that marriage is out of the question, and you don't want to see her anymore. Now she'll understand, believe me."


"Uncle -- if you don't listen to me -- and marry this woman -- you'll disappoint me. "

_

I would be fully supportive of whatever he is deciding for whatever reasons or influences. If it makes him happy who cares if he blows all his money? After all, it is HIS money. Even though you have his best interests in mind, is it worth you and your families relationships with him?

Do what you can to stay friends and DON'T be judgmental of condemning. At the very most I would only say that he is brave because you couldn't do what they are doing and leave it at that. Then do what you can to help without becoming financially responsible.

Welcome her to the family, but watch your silver when she visits!


Where I'm coming from...
My brother had MS and ran into an old HS flame after a bad divorce due to his MS. The old flame was like you described, very checkered past and present. She latched onto him after they first reconnected, basically moved in. Turned out she was a co-dependent and had just gotten hooked up with the wrong types putting her in the bad positions she was in. Was the best thing to happen to both of them.

One of the differences is they didn't rush out to get married. She was receiving VA benefits due to his MS that would quit. She was getting paid for being a live-in caregiver. Their church got all involved and talked them into getting married. After they got married the VA didn't just stop paying her, they made them pay back all the money they had paid her in the past. Because of the amount they had to pay back to the VA they stopped giving money to the church and ALL the church people stopped coming around.

Thanks for all of your advice. It is greatly appreciated.
Will update as to how this goes down.
Ron

There are permutations to an 80 year-old man marrying a 40 something woman but all end poorly. Let us be frank, a 40 year-old woman who desires to marry a man in his 80's has more issues than National Geographic.

That said, unless he is addled it remains his option, his to goon. Express your concerns then hope the worse isn't.

One of my favorite song lyrics captures my feelings: ...every form of refuge has it's price.

A rich old man
And she won't have to worry...

Oh! Thanks! I needed that! :D:D:D:D

Update:
I've been running around the house singing "Eagles" songs.
Now my wife is singing "Eagles" songs.

It solved nothing, but, sure feels good!:D

Easier said than done for a man like me....I'm of Sicilian heritage. Do not mess with mi famiglia. But this isn't about me.

Take him on a bachelor party to Vegas. Start off at Spearmint Rhino and go from there. Then take him to the Bunny Ranch... His little trollop back home won't be so enticing after that.

Oh good lord! I've had friends who have been there. It would turn us both to mush!;)
edit: no wait- it would turn me into an 80+ year old man. It would turn him into a young Ron Jeremy

They have drugs for that, but nothing to combat looking like Ron Jeremy.

http://blog.freakingawesome.net/wp-c...remy-mario.jpg